The underlying tone engines are not 100% compatible - so there will be, for example, some instances on Montage where it cannot fully duplicate what GenOS does. The ability to make Montage reproduce what Genos does depends on what you're trying to do. In general one can say this can be done. However, specific use cases will start to show why there are two distinct products with neither fully reproducing what the other does.

In terms of ethnic sounds - Montage has had some criticism over how portamento works for AWM2 (sampled) sounds. Each note will have the attack sound - so if the original sample has a distinct attack then when portamento "gliding" - the sound will not be smooth but have the attack sound between each note. Genos has a way to alter this behavior to get smooth glides while Montage does not. This has been brought up in the context of emulating some ethnic instruments before.

Genos has some modes not supported by Montage such as being able to control how pitch bend may, for example, not bend the bottom note of a held chord.

There's likely a long list of all of the differences of what you cannot "simulate" on the Montage assuming you wanted it to act and sound like Genos.

Subject: Product Support

I have a choice between a Genos & a Montage ...( actually I just bought a montage ) the Genos has sounds in it , that are not available in the montage. for eg. Genos.. "Zither" along with many other lovely ethnic sounds I wish to use , doo voices... & a bunch of others , can I find these sounds available somewhere ( the raw audio files ) ..
& load it into a montage?.. thanks much ,,

I have compared the data list of both ..there are many same & similar sounds...
cheers & thanks to the brainiacs who can guide me the right way ...

Jules , Excel Music Studio:p

Jules,
There is no compatibility between GENOS and MONTAGE. The architectures of the two instruments are different, as different as each product’s focus. Although they share the same company of origin, and some of the company’s chips and technologies, beyond that there is no compatibility between sound data at the user level.

thanks Jason & Bad Mister,, you guys are excellent ...( product specialists ? ) your knowledge goes deep

solution ?.
I guess I would have to sample those Genos instruments , to get them sounds the same,,
what would be useful , is to have the original wavs.. or whatever they are converted to wavs.. to import them into montage.
I know Genos has those expression buttons too .. love the zither , so brilliant ..so real. ,, the pianos are gorgeous ..

I played a Genos , & it has those wonderful sounds & would buy a genos just for those sounds, but I got a montage 8 now..

going deep with it soon .. been watching dozens of videos.
best regards Jules.

Hi Jules --

Although I agree with Phil and Jason (no direct compatibility), the situation is not hopeless!

I spend a fair amount of time bouncing between Genos and MODX where "bouncing" means transfering voice and effect programming between instruments as well as playing. Fortunately, you're going from Genos to Montage and Montage (MODX) have deep editing. The situation in the other direction (Montage to Genos) is far more limited due to the editing limitations of Yamaha Expansion Manager (YEM) and lack of a waveform list.

That said, one of my first transfer projects was to sample Genos pipe organs and build equivalent Performances on MODX:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-creating-a-new-waveform/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-get-started-with-sample-robot/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-sampling-genos-pipe-organ/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-going-to-the-library/

I've also attacked a few projects which require knowledge of Expanded Articulation (XA). It helps to understand the differences between XA and Genos Super Articulation which automatically controls/invokes articulations via its software. XA requires a different approach, but much of the same effect can be achieved thanks to XA and the assignable (function) buttons.

It may be a challenge to capture some of the zither's articulations. One would need to consistently and reproducibly trigger transient articulations on Genos. Perhaps drive Genos with MIDI from a DAW, capture the audio waveform, trim the samples and finally, create the waveforms and Performances on Montage. Sample Robot does a lot of this work. Sample Robot is good for capturing "straight" notes, however, it may not be up to the task of triggering certain articulations.

DSP effect programming is easier to share modulo a few relatively minor -- although sometimes important -- differences. Usually I'm robbing Peter (Montage/MODX) to give to Paul (Genos). 🙂

Hope this helps -- pj

P.S. I have a number of random blog posts with examples of bouncing things around at my site: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/

It's not hopeless - but it depends. Genos has some real-time control stuff (articulations) that isn't available in Montage. So maybe what the OP wants to transplant is "simple" and would transfer OK - maybe not.

many thanks to all , you know what it can be like , managing sounds , navigating the labrynth of technical issues... so gracias to you all..

cheers Jules.
Excel Music Studio

Must say I'm surprised and disappointed that Montage and Genos are incompatible. The left hand not knowing what the right is doing? How can Yamaha have not ensured that the formats were identical, so that interchange was not only possible, but encouraged? Both machines made hugely more costly than they needed to be, both machines compromised so that neither does either job as well as it could, and not even compatible! I find that quite unbelievable!

What's the precedent for 2 very different platforms to be compatible? I don't get the incredulous vibe.

For example, a Korg Kronos workstation can't load Korg PA4x arranger files. Likewise for Roland workstations & arrangers.

Hi Michel - if there's no precedent, I find that even more incredible! There should be. You build houses with the same bricks, and that should be the case with music machines. A sound equates to a brick. Interchangeable. You can use them to build anything you want. I understand why different companies might use different bricks, but there's no excuse for the same company doing that.

The difference between a Montage and Genos - in housing terms - is an apartment or suburban dwelling. The apartment doesn't have a yard or garage. That's the way it is. Incompatible on those fronts. The dwelling would have these things and other distinguishing factors. That's why they're different - serving different goals/needs.

The fact that a person can live in either is a part where they're compatible. Different keyboard platforms (like Montage and Genos) are compatible in they both have the same system of playing notes (a piano-like keyboard) - both use similar western musical scale as a default - both have the same kind of I/O for audio (and USB) to connect external gear so you can hear what the box does. It's in the "smaller" differences (like file formats) where the products would be incompatible. Which makes sense because one keyboard has a garage and yard and the other doesn't.

At some point if you get rid of differentiation and make all products the same - you get rid of the need to have multiple products. Then the person who doesn't want arranger features, articulation features, registrations, etc. is paying for that in the "one size fits all" product that ends up getting released. And the one product ends up costing more because it's a superset of two products. Having everything. How much does the Genos cost (rhetorical question)? How about paying substantially more than that to have an "everything" box?

I, personally, do not want to see that happen. There are certain features from Genos that I had wished ended up on Montage. But I'm OK with the product segmentation that "forces" these differences. I can wish - but understand why I would perhaps not obtain my wish.

hi all , great interaction ,,
for my purposes , all I need is the raw wav ( sound file ) from a Genos...contains the samples ,,,,
that I can then import directly into Montage ..
the only way I can think of , is to sample Genos ,without effects ,,, sample robot is a likely tool ..

but to save all that effort , if the basic Genos sounds were available somehow ,,
> the import process would be so much quicker , simpler,,
& you're guaranteed getting the original data..

I'm wondering if that possibility exists .. anywhere ,
even if Yamaha release that data for such uses,,,
I think they would get a big positive response..

cheers All , thanks

Jules
Excel Music Studio 😀

Hi Jules --

It would be great to be able to install, program and play Genos waveforms on Montage/MODX. Perhaps this is an idea for IdeaScale? Of course, the actual Performance programming would be subject to the limitations of the native platforms, i.e., don't expect Articulated Element Modeling (AKA "Super Articulation 2" ) on Montage/MODX.

I doubt if Yamaha will just release the waveforms (AKA samples). Yamaha invests a lot of money in sound development including sampling. Most likely, they would (or should) sell new Performances and associated waveforms via Yamaha Musicsoft.

Genos expansion packs have copy protection to prevent piracy. WAV files alone without protection would be a pirate's paradise. Montage/MODX waveforms would need similar protection, but I guess that is for the engineers to work out. 🙂

It sure would save me some time, too. However, Yamaha's internal development resources aren't infinite...

All the best -- pj

Hi guys - we're back to that again! My whole point is that they ARE different - so why bother trying to make each do three-quarters of the other's job? A €2500 synth plus a €3500 arranger both performing their tasks perfectly - with interchangeable sounds, of course - is better than a €3500 synth that doesn't have all the features it should but lots that it shouldn't, plus a €4500 arranger that has unnecessary and expensive synth stuff built into it. Horses for courses. I was unkindly hard on Yamaha, who have recognised the sense of interchangeable sounds in that they have made it possible to transfer sounds from legacy synths to the Montage, which makes it all the more astonishing that that hasn't been done with the Genos! I know I'm baying for the Moon here, but the point may stick in a Yamaha guy's mind further down the road ...

The 'building' analogy falls down because you build what you want with the bricks. So you wouldn't build an apartment and try to tack on a garage, or put a lift shaft in a bungalow. Expensive and unnecessary. Synths make the bricks. Arrangers and workstations use them, tweak them to suit a song, sure, like trimming a brick to fit - but not having to make the brick in the first place.

Ok, thought you wanted Montage to be 100% compatible with Genos for some reason. My mistake. Looks like you understand why they're different and segmented - bricks or no bricks.