That seems to match what I posted 2 days ago here:

https://yamahasynth.com/community/montage-series-synthesizers/montage-esp-2-0-library-functions/#post-125534

Working from a tip by Chris I cleared out the event viewer logs on Win 10 and launched the free Cubase version

1. status line shows it initializing the ESP plug in

2. the plug-in never shows up in the Cubase app

3. the event viewer application log shows two errors

-----

Faulting application name: Cubase LE AI Elements 13.exe, version: 13.0.41.256, time stamp: 0x66605b11
Faulting module name: Expanded Softsynth Plugin for MONTAGE M.vst3, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x65a87a37
Exception code: 0xc000001d
Fault offset: 0x00000000003da7d2
Faulting process id: 0x46b4
Faulting application start time: 0x01dad3d4724a4083
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase LE AI Elements 13\Cubase LE AI Elements 13.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase LE AI Elements 13\VST3\Yamaha\Expanded Softsynth Plugin for MONTAGE M.vst3\Contents\x86_64-win\Expanded Softsynth Plugin for MONTAGE M.vst3
Report Id: a92539fb-bed4-4be8-b385-c9e5ba3f7161
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

-----

Note the 'Faulting module path' above -> it is the actual .vst3 file in the x86-win folder of the installation. So the plug-in IS being found;

-----

Windows cannot access the file for one of the following reasons: there is a problem with the network connection, the disk that the file is stored on, or the storage drivers installed on this computer; or the disk is missing. Windows closed the program Cubase LE AI Elements 13 because of this error.

Program: Cubase LE AI Elements 13
File:

The error value is listed in the Additional Data section.
User Action
1. Open the file again. This situation might be a temporary problem that corrects itself when the program runs again.
2. If the file still cannot be accessed and
- It is on the network, your network administrator should verify that there is not a problem with the network and that the server can be contacted.
- It is on a removable disk, for example, a floppy disk or CD-ROM, verify that the disk is fully inserted into the computer.
3. Check and repair the file system by running CHKDSK. To run CHKDSK, click Start, click Run, type CMD, and then click OK. At the command prompt, type CHKDSK /F, and then press ENTER.
4. If the problem persists, restore the file from a backup copy.
5. Determine whether other files on the same disk can be opened. If not, the disk might be damaged. If it is a hard disk, contact your administrator or computer hardware vendor for further assistance.

Additional Data
Error value: 00000000
Disk type: 0

-----

It says it can't access that .vst3 file. The permissions are 'Full Control' for everyone and for all users in the list.

I even enabled the Super Root account but got the same errors. So it is either a permissions error or something in the .vst3 file itself. Not sure how it can be a permissions error if Super Root is the user.

Same exception code and all. That is on a fully updated Win 10 22H2 and AMD FX 4130 quad core 3800 mhz machine.

Even running as Super Root the exception still occurs.

Posted by: Toby

↑

That seems to match what I posted 2 days ago here:

https://yamahasynth.com/community/montage-series-synthesizers/montage-esp-2-0-library-functions/#post-125534

Sorry, Toby, I should have given credit where due. It was your post that prompted me to look into the Event Viewer messages (can't believe I didn't think of that before).

What I've added is that despite the bogus MS message, this is not a file permission related problem. As mentioned, the exception has to do with an illegal / unsupported processor instruction, but if they were doing some kind of file based action then the failure would be categorized as such even though that wasn't the actual error.

In your case you have AMD processors, and on my failing computers they're older Xeon chips. Like software, CPUs get updated in new versions and support new instructions. The exception code doesn't say what the actual instruction was that caused the problem, but I'm willing to bet that it's one that neither your CPUs nor mine support.

In short, there's not much you can do about this but use a different computer for the plugin. I'm doing my best to get this info to the Yamaha devs in hopes that in a 2.01 patch release they can address the issue. After all Cubase runs fine on these processors, so it's not unreasonable to expect that the plugin could handle it as well. However, it may not be that simple if the fault is coming from the JUCE third party library that they use to develop the plugin.

Sorry, Toby, I should have given credit where due

Nonsense! I reposted it merely to show that I had almost the identical reporting you had. As I said it was one of your comments in that other thread that made me realize that I had never checked the event viewer log.

There is one KEY difference between your error report and mine - this is the revelant part of mine

Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase LE AI Elements 13\VST3\Yamaha\Expanded Softsynth Plugin for MONTAGE M.vst3\Contents\x86_64-win\Expanded Softsynth Plugin for MONTAGE M.vst3

Note the path! The plug-in is in the Common Files\VST3 folder where it belongs but in trying to find a file/permission related problem I copied it all over the place to places where I knew that all users had permissions.

1. if I remove the plugin from the above 'Faulting module path' then when Cubase loads it does NOT find or try to init the ESP and with no ESP available once loaded.

2. with the plugin in that above path AND with it also in the required Common Files\VST3 folder then when Cubase loads the screen shows 'Initializing ... full esp name ...' but after loading it is nowhere to be found.

That seems to indicate that it ONLY found the ESP because it was in the Cubase\VST3 folder but then failed after that. Since the exception code is the same it is likely failing because of the instruction thing you mentioned but it could also be compounded in my case if the installation put things in files, or the registry, that don't match the actual VST3 file it found in the wrong place.

Too many possibilities to try to figure that out.

There have been a lot of CPU extensions in the SIMD area and in the bit-manipulating area. One possibility is the 'popcnt' instruction - it counts the number of bits that are SET in a register and isn't available on the older processors. Counts of SET bits are heavily used in video/audio (or any bitstream) processing so this is one of the specialized instructions that everyone added to their CPUs even when they didn't have much else to add for differentiation.

All it takes is one instruction that ain't there.

Posted by: Toby

↑

All it takes is one instruction that ain't there.

Yeah, I think that's really the heart of it.

Posted by: Chris Duncan

↑

Posted by: Toby

↑

All it takes is one instruction that ain't there.

Yeah, I think that's really the heart of it.

 

Maybe ESP 2.0 requires full support for SSE4.2? I think Windows 11 does but I believe you're running Windows 10?

(SSE4.2 is an updated version of the Streaming SIMD Extensions 4 (SSE) CPU instruction set.)

Nowadays, all modern CPUs fully support this instruction set since it was already introduced in 2008 (Intel) / 2011 (AMD).

Running ESP in older CPU architecture might run into issues (guessing, based on your conclusions).

There is a quick way to check this in your suspect Windows instance:

Windows (Command Prompt/PowerShell):

> machid.exe

If your CPU fully supports SSE4.2 then the output of the above command should mention:

SSE4.2: True

Posted by: Stu

↑

Posted by: Chris Duncan

↑

Posted by: Toby

↑

All it takes is one instruction that ain't there.

Yeah, I think that's really the heart of it.

 

Maybe ESP 2.0 requires full support for SSE4.2? I think Windows 11 does but I believe you're running Windows 10?

(SSE4.2 is an updated version of the Streaming SIMD Extensions 4 (SSE) CPU instruction set.)

Nowadays, all modern CPUs fully support this instruction set since it was already introduced in 2008 (Intel) / 2011 (AMD).

Running ESP in older CPU architecture might run into issues (guessing, based on your conclusions).

There is a quick way to check this in your suspect Windows instance:

Windows (Command Prompt/PowerShell):

> machid.exe

If your CPU fully supports SSE4.2 then the output of the above command should mention:

SSE4.2: True

 

Oops. Your instance may not have the machine id executable. You may have to find and download a similar instruction set architecture tool.

Posted by: Stu

↑

Posted by: Stu

↑

Posted by: Chris Duncan

↑

Posted by: Toby

↑

All it takes is one instruction that ain't there.

Yeah, I think that's really the heart of it.

 

Maybe ESP 2.0 requires full support for SSE4.2? I think Windows 11 does but I believe you're running Windows 10?

(SSE4.2 is an updated version of the Streaming SIMD Extensions 4 (SSE) CPU instruction set.)

Nowadays, all modern CPUs fully support this instruction set since it was already introduced in 2008 (Intel) / 2011 (AMD).

Running ESP in older CPU architecture might run into issues (guessing, based on your conclusions).

There is a quick way to check this in your suspect Windows instance:

Windows (Command Prompt/PowerShell):

> machid.exe

If your CPU fully supports SSE4.2 then the output of the above command should mention:

SSE4.2: True

 

 

Oops. Your instance may not have the machine id executable. You may have to find and download a similar instruction set architecture tool.

 

Here's one that may work: 

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/coreinfo

Ideascale is reviewed by the engineers weekly which would be the best place to post these details and get traction.  Often, though, Yamaha support here will manually forward stuff.

Oh, I thought that was just for new features and assumed it would be reviewed by marketing rather than engineers.

Oh, I thought that was just for new features and assumed it would be reviewed by marketing rather than engineers.

You can also contact support directly using the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page.

(p.s. for 'favorites' use the job button on Category Search to enable knob 4 as favorites ON/OFF)

Posted by: Stu

↑

Maybe ESP 2.0 requires full support for SSE4.2? I think Windows 11 does but I believe you're running Windows 10?

(SSE4.2 is an updated version of the Streaming SIMD Extensions 4 (SSE) CPU instruction set.)

Nowadays, all modern CPUs fully support this instruction set since it was already introduced in 2008 (Intel) / 2011 (AMD).

Running ESP in older CPU architecture might run into issues (guessing, based on your conclusions).

There is a quick way to check this in your suspect Windows instance:

Windows (Command Prompt/PowerShell):

> machid.exe

If your CPU fully supports SSE4.2 then the output of the above command should mention:

SSE4.2: True

That may well be the case, but ultimately it all comes down to the same thing. There's nothing to be done about it beyond using / buying a different computer if yours doesn't support Windows 11 (as is the case with mine).

When writing software, there are always decisions on what you're willing to support (actually, backward compatibility is loathed by programmers everywhere).

Nonetheless, my knee jerk expectation would be that if my box can run Cubase 13, then plugins should support that same architecture. This is the first plugin I've ever had from Cubase 6 onward that wouldn't work.

I don't know if this is because they made an explicit decision to require certain processor / OS support or if they just used cool new features that they wanted to use without thinking of the implications. Which programmers do a lot.

Posted by: Toby

↑

Oh, I thought that was just for new features and assumed it would be reviewed by marketing rather than engineers.

You can also contact support directly using the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page.

I actually DM'd Phil on the other forum and pointed him to this thread. I figure I've made enough noise about this. If they want to address the issue, they will. If they choose to ignore it because they don't want to support older architectures, it is what it is.

If they choose to ignore it because they don't want to support older architectures, it is what it is.

Yep - the 'dll hell', that I'm sure you are familiar with, was bad enough in terms of figuring out how to correlate components that needed a given environment.

But since then the problem has been magnified with the extreme expansion of the '3rd party software' (aka 'not invented here') paradigm.

And now you have to deal with that same issue at the BIOS and CPU levels. The problem we ran into when I was doing systems work is that there isn't any way to interrogate the BIOS or CPU to see what features are available and/or enabled. Without that  ability it's pretty hard to make sure things match.

Linux tries hard to do that sort of versioning check but even it craps out when it comes to the BIOS and CPU.

In out heyday the key thing was 'data' - these days it is the 'metadata' that can be more important than the data itself. What format is this WAV file? What is the sampling rate used? Can I load that into my instrument? Tough to figure that out using simple software if it can't query the metadata.

Like you, I'm not holding my breath on support for older stuff. But I am waiting for Microsoft to release there Win 11 support update for MIDI 2.0 and am waiting for the new CPUs due out the end of the year to match the PCIe 5 support for SSDs.

Most of my computers are shockingly old. I never throw out tech unless it just flat out stops working. Instead, I repurpose it for other uses.

These Xeon desktops are not just for Cubase. One of them is my primary development box for Visual Studio, Sql Server, etc. And they still work just fine for both dev and Cubase, which is why I wasn't cutting the Yamaha devs any slack.

As long as my boxes work for their intended purpose, I ain't pulling out the credit card for new computers. It's way too much money to spend for something that's not nearly as fun as buying a Montage. 🙂