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Is it possible to change the overall tonal balance of the Montage ?

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Hi, i find the global frequencies balance of the Montage very trebles oriented : sound is very clear, pure, magnificent, no question about it... but i "feel" it a little too "hi-pass fliter" to my taste...

I like the feel of the tone balance of the Prophet X, for example, which seems to be more Low Pass...

My question is : is it a way to make the tone balance of the Montage consistently more "Low Pass", more "organic"... i don't know if the analogy is good 😉

Thank you,
Alex

 
Posted : 04/02/2019 2:53 am
Stefan
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No, there is no global equalizer or similar. You have ample possibilities to do it per performance, but there is no global thing. You would have to do this using something external - or invest the time to adapt the performances to you taste.

 
Posted : 04/02/2019 12:13 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Simple enough... if you have two Synthesizers then you’re ready for a mixer. Beyond the role of allowing several devices to be merged to a stereo Output, a mixer can be used to balance the sonic quality; a role often overlooked but essential. The sound you get, which you describe with the LPF/HPF analogy, is greatly influenced by the speaker/sound reinforcement system you are using.

The MONTAGE is certainly going to sound full range (including frequencies across the entire range), what a quality mixer will do for you is allow you to balance, to taste, the signal you provide for your speaker system to deal with... it could be that your speaker/sound system is what you need to compensate for.

Play each in headphones, just for a different perspective of each source. Then go back to your sound system.
For example, if your speaker system has deficient high frequency content (due to the tweeter not pulling its weight) this would radically affect your results. Lack of maintaining the stereo signal in your sound reinforcement system could degrade the results coming from the MONTAGE... ie, merging stereo to a mono system would greatly degrade the sound (don’t do that!)

So a definitive solution as to what to do is really not possible.... remember the sound you get can never be better than the weakest link in the system.

I was in a store recently where they had the MONTAGE plugged into a single keyboard amp with a blown piezo for a tweeter... I didn’t even recognize it as a MONTAGE. Needless to say we changed the display so that there were speakers commensurate with its stature, what a difference!

Your description using “filters” says to me, you are compensating for the sound system... what is the sound system?

 
Posted : 04/02/2019 1:03 pm
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Thank you for your fast answer 🙂

My HPF/LPF analogy isn't that good i suppose 😉

I don't think my sound system is the trouble (and again it's not the fault of the Montage, which has a gorgeous sound...) : i monitor the montage (and my Logic Pro output) straight out of Main outs into Mackie HR824s.
I use too a AKG 240 MKII headphones (with sonarworks plug in to flatten the frequencie curve).
So i think the instruments (hardware and software) sound as they're supposed to sound.

It's rather my ears (and body) i suppose, that are accustomed to a more low-mid sound : i played for years the Kurzweil's Triple Strike piano (PC88, then PC3...), which has this weight in the medium frequencies that literally makes me feel good, balanced (i'm a pianist, arranger, and it makes me relate to maybe sitting at a real piano (i own a Yamaha G2 by the way...), i don't know...).
I recently put a little of this kurzweil sound behind the CFX studio pop sound of the Montage, adding some frequencies, without disturbing the clarity and beauty of CFX (which is the first thing why i bought my Montage), and it makes me feel great, at home...

Maybe you can figure a little more my "problem" 😉
So, i wondered if you had a workflow, or a tip, a trick, to approach this more low-mid sound on the Montage, in a consistently manner, or perf by perf...

Thank you again !
Alex

 
Posted : 04/02/2019 6:21 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

My HPF/LPF analogy isn't that good i suppose 😉

Perhaps not, because it leads one to believe your sound system is lacking or telling lies either at the high end or the low end. If this is not the case, good... If it’s just a matter of what you’ve gotten used to or what makes you feel good, well, that’s fine. But then only you know what that is...

Here’s some things to consider... when trying to emulate a sound you have to consider many things. As an example, you can perhaps ruin a B3/Leslie emulation by allowing anything significant above 12kHz to even exist. Some times you need to grunge down a sound to make it authentic. That’s one of the most powerful things (imho) about the MONTAGE engine, the EQs. At every stage you have powerful EQs... within the instrument, pre the Insertion Effects, post the Insertion Effects (some times within the Effect itself), then there is the overall EQ. Knowing where to go to ‘fix’ an issue can be important. Do you need to fix the instrument, its effects, or the combined total output?

Psychoacoustic
The ear/brain gets accustomed to the sound it is hearing... and it seeks to differentiate from where and to what it is listening... if you introduce something that has a completely different dynamic range to some thing you have been listening to, you will experience your ear/brain making this differentiation. The two different dynamic ranges can play tricks on you as you fight to keep the sources separated and categorized. If they are playing different Songs you fight to keep each separated, although you’ll look for random things to link - you’ll look for any similar things (Key, Tempo for however long they match). If they are coordinated, and are actually involved in playing the same piece of music, you will scour your Memory Banks for a scenario that fits this situation. Is one source closer, or farther away, or under an awning or outdoors, etc., etc.

Often when different reverbs are used on two different sources that part of the ear/brain that makes sense of what’s being heard gets confused. Reverb gives you a sense of distance as well as a sense of the size of the environment the music is being performed in... this is one reason Effects like Reverb are added later when all sources can share the same ‘space simulator’.

Dynamic range is the useable distance from soft-to-loud. The item with the smaller dynamic range “sits” differently from the one covering a wider dynamic range. How to characterize that in words might be in play here...

Gain Staging
Gain staging is the part of setup that, unfortunately, musicians all too often overlook or simply get wrong. “Loud” is not always achieved properly. There is a right and wrong to setting levels. Fundamentally, you want each component to do it’s fair share of work. You want to fill the internal MONTAGE engine with enough signal so it delivers the proper amount to the next stage. Enough so that this next stage does not have work work too hard or too little to pass to the next stage.

If you distort the first stage, turning later stages down will not fix the problem.
And conversely, a weak output in the first stage, winds up a noise ridden signal farther down the line because you ask a later stage to make up the gain.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 04/02/2019 7:03 pm
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It does help 🙂

I'll go first with EQ's, try to figure whjch ones could be tweakable my way.

Many many thanks to you !!

 
Posted : 04/02/2019 7:13 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

This isn't for the entire keyboard - it will "die" when you change Performances (and you have to reapply) - but if you press the FX/EQ button above the knobs (on the left-hand side) - you can use the first 5 knobs to adjust EQ. This is quick-and-dirty. All of the preset pianos should have an EQ enabled. Maybe not the "DA" one (I haven't checked). But it should be obvious if the knobs are doing anything or not.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 05/02/2019 12:58 am
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