I'd like to be able to see the list at a glance

There is no functionality to do that. Sounds like a good thing to submit on IdeaScale.

and also pick one from the list rather than hitting the increment button 17 times

The only options are the 'up/down' arrows on the screen or the ones on the front panel for bank and page. You can also use

the 16 blue buttons on the front panel to select one of the 16 Live Set entries on the current page.

I know you can see the actual names in the data manual, but I'm speaking specifically of the UI.

That also doesn't help with User Live Sets or those in Libraries.

Am I missing it somewhere, or is incrementing one at a time the only way to view the live set list?

No you haven't missed it. I don't know why they didn't treat Live Set display the same as performance display. It would even be easier to

use, IMO, if the 'down' arrow showed a list of the pages for the current bank so you could at least see what pages were available.

For User Live sets the best you can do is organize them in different banks and pages so you know where things are. Maybe a different bank for different gigs and different pages in a bank for different sets in the same gig.

The organization seems to be oriented to selecting a bank and page at the start of a gig and then just stepping through the slots sequentially based on your play list.

This older thread has some discussion about using SysEx commands to select bank and page but even that method isn't a complete solution.

https://yamahasynth.com/community/modx-series-synthesizers/sysex-to-change-live-set-bank-and-page/

Thanks, Toby.

I suspected that might be the case. I don't gig anymore, so I'm just a recreational studio rat now. It won't kill me to just push the button a few times. Overall I find the UI a joy to use, especially after six years with a Kronos (which I still love).

Ages ago I read an interview with Keith Emerson where a keyboard rep was going into all the geeky details under the hood of how the keyboard was designed. Emerson said, "I don't need to know how it works. I just need to know how to work it."

There will always be differences between keyboards, so I'm just enjoying what it can do and learning how to work it.

There will always be differences between keyboards, so I'm just enjoying what it can do and learning how to work it.

IMO the biggest 'gotcha' is that this is a synthesizer - not a stage piano. So many of the presets are NOT designed to be used 'as is' but are more designed to show what the instrument is capable of doing.

See my extended comments in this thread for a 'you are now entering the twilight zone' example

https://yamahasynth.com/community/montage-series-synthesizers/accessing-the-parts-category-search/#post-125178

I'll just mention a few of the things that can trip you up.

1. control assignments that cause the volume to appear to act oddly

2. sliders that don't appear to affect volume (see #1 above for a common cause of this)

3. motion sequences that seem to come and go and do odd things

4. parts that act differently based on a panel knob, slider or switch position

5. parts that  don't seem to work at all if you copy them from a preset into your own performance.

CAUTION - except for the 4 INIT performances there is no such thing as a 'default' value for ANY of the parameters for any of the preset performances.

The synth is, in many respects, like a computer CPU and memory. Until you program it it won't do anything at all. A preset performance could have 8 parts with each part designed to be a performance of its own with absolutely NO RELATION to any of the other parts. Select part 1 get a piano, part 2 get a saxophone, etc.

Whenever the synth is ON moving ANY control (slider, knob, button) on the front panel (or a pedal) will change one or more parameter values. 

Load a performance, move a slider/knob and you have already changed things. The only way undo the change is to reload the performance - there is a limited ability to use 'recall' (an 'undo' wannabe that can be problematic at times).

One work flow that works well for me is:

1. load a preset

2. examine it throughly to learn EVERYTHING it does

3. edit or remove any functionality you don't want

4. save the result as your own user performance - use it as a starting point to build your other performances.

The previous gen had a bank of LEDs that allowed for random access to Live Set pages.  I believe there's a recent thread discussing this.  I think a [SHIFT] function could "replace" the missing buttons.  Not sure if this already inspired an Ideascale.

Posted by: Toby

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There will always be differences between keyboards, so I'm just enjoying what it can do and learning how to work it.

IMO the biggest 'gotcha' is that this is a synthesizer - not a stage piano. So many of the presets are NOT designed to be used 'as is' but are more designed to show what the instrument is capable of doing. 

I think your computer analogy is on the money in a number of ways since it really is just a computer under the hood, even if it's not a Mac or PC. I approach all the workstations I own with two different mindsets. Sometimes I just want to sit down and play, and in those cases I've already identified the sounds I want to play.

The other mindset is sound design, which as you've pointed out can be quite the rabbit hole. I think it's one of those things that you need to be zen about and enjoy as much for the experience as the result.

There are days when I want to twiddle knobs, and there are days when I just want to be a musician. Some of this is influenced by the fact that I pay the bills as a software developer. Many are the days when the last thing I want to deal with on my time off is a freakin' computer. Fortunately, I can go to my favorites, press a button and just play.

Posted by: Jason

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The previous gen had a bank of LEDs that allowed for random access to Live Set pages.  I believe there's a recent thread discussing this.  I think a [SHIFT] function could "replace" the missing buttons.  Not sure if this already inspired an Ideascale.

I've never owned a Montage before. If you stumble upon that link again and wouldn't mind posting it, I think I would enjoy experimenting with your somewhat shifty idea.

I've never owned a Montage before. If you stumble upon that link again and wouldn't mind posting it, I think I would enjoy experimenting with your somewhat shifty idea.

He may be referring to the button group shown in the graphic on page 17 of the owner manual

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/812097/montage_en_om_b0.pdf

See this text on page 29 describing the Live Set functionality

Page (Switched by pressing [u] [d] in the screen,
the ELEMENT/OPERATOR [MUTE] button, or the
[SOLO] button. Selected by pressing the Number A
[5] – [8]/[13] – [16] buttons, the Number B [5] – [8]
buttons, or the Number C [5] – [8] buttons.)

And refer to the item 45 buttons on the graphic on page 17 and this text on page 20

In the Live Set display, the Number C [1] – [4] buttons can be used to
select Performances in the fourth line, and the Number C [5]
– [8] buttons can be used to select Live Set pages 13 – 16.

The button group on the M models only select one of the 16 slots on the current page whether you use 'shift' or not.

I'm not aware of any way to see the list of pages but the hierarchy is:

1. Bank - 1 preset, 1-16 library, 1-8 user

2. Each bank can have up to 16 pages

3. Each page (of each bank) can have up to 16 slots

Adding a suggestion to IdeaScale would be great to use 'shift' to have the buttons select one of the 16 pages instead of one of the 16 slots since you can alread select a slot using the touchscreen.

I'm referring to a discussion where future, not available functionality could be adopted to make Live Set random access to Live Set pages work more like the the Montage classic which had a second grid of buttons.

And the suggestion sent to the ethos (or those inspired to open an Ideascale) was to add functionality where holding [SHIFT] plus the 4x4 grid of buttons could be used to recover the lost buttons and restore random access to Live Set pages.

Here's the link to the  recent related discussion:

https://yamahasynth.com/community/postid/125154/

And the suggestion sent to the ethos (or those inspired to open an Ideascale) was to add functionality where holding [SHIFT] plus the 4x4 grid of buttons could be used to recover the lost buttons and restore random access to Live Set pages.

Seems to me that should be possible to add that in an update. Using the shift key has no effect on the M buttons - they just select a slot whether the shift key is pressed or not.