Probably not as far as turning them off or changing the color. They serve a very important role depending on what mode you are in such as brightly lit, dimly lit and off. The shades determine whether they are active, on standby or have no function in the selected mode.

lol, yeah... I pretty much guessed there wasn't a way...

I just wished they would have kept the red color (of the Motif XF) or even changed it to blue if they wanted a different color...

But every time I see those orange buttons it just reminds me of the 1970's videos I have seen ...

I know... first world concern... 🙂

The best you can do is turn "half glow" off - but this affects more than just the amber LEDs.

[UTILITY] button
Touchscreen (TS): "Settings" -> "System"
TS: LED category "Half Glow" can be set to "Off"

LEDs can either be bright (usually meaning "activated") or not bright (usually meaning "deactivated"). Setting the Half Glow to OFF will turn off all deactivated LEDs - but will still illuminate active LEDs (amber or blue).

I absolutely love those lights. They're also very informative.
To me, there's nothing 70's about it... the entire Montage looks damn next level futuristic stuff!

Actually the only thing that bothered me, is the blinking of the Superknob. which I disabled (only the blinking though - I love the lighting of the Superknob).

Thanks Jason - I did not know that!

I guess what I don't like is the half glow of the orange buttons - now that I know they can be turned off - that's awesome!

And Eyal - you are right - the Montage is a beautiful keyboard (even more-so now that I know the half glow lights can be turned off).

I totally agree with you about the Super Knob.

No blinking - just a steady blue!

What I would miss by turning off half-glow is that, as mentioned, the setting would also turn off half-glow of the blue LEDs such as the SCENE LEDs. I use half-glow for the SCENE LEDs all the time because half-glow = scene is setup (but not active). Therefore, it shows me which preset and user performances have scenes available - and in which slots they are available. My user performances, I typically use slots 8 then go down from there (7, 6, ... - depends on number of scenes). The half-glow visual at-a-glance is helpful for me during the gig to remember. The loss of such indication may not matter to you, but I wanted to be sure it was clear at least one example of a "side effect".

As an aside - I start with SCENE 8 because 8 is positioned closer to the middle of the keyboard and easier to "get to" from a hand position shift perspective.

Perhaps with an OS update one day the half-glow only on specified buttons can be disabled and not all of them. I've noticed that on the performance programs that usually the SCENE 6/7/8 get more of a "FILL" or off-beam improvisation going on. Another nice wish-list feature would be to be able to reverse the order of SCENE 1-8 with 8-1 with one button press because on my M8 it's a long arm stretch down to SCENE 1.

david wrote:

Perhaps with an OS update one day the half-glow only on specified buttons can be disabled and not all of them. I've noticed that on the performance programs that usually the SCENE 6/7/8 get more of a "FILL" or off-beam improvisation going on. Another nice wish-list feature would be to be able to reverse the order of SCENE 1-8 with 8-1 with one button press because on my M8 it's a long arm stretch down to SCENE 1.

Yamaha, you listening? 🙂

That would be a GREAT OS update - give the user the ability to turn off the different sections they don't want lit/half-lit.

Another great update (probably not available on OS though) is to let the user change the color of the lit/half-lit buttons.

Sorry - I just really don't like the amber/orange!

@G:

In order to change the color of the amber LEDs, you're going to have to pay a technician to swap out those amber LEDs with some different color and void the warranty in the process. Your car has firmware to adjust the on-board-computer which regulates idle speeds and other aspects of the car. However, you cannot call General Motors/BMW/etc. and ask for firmware to make your headlights shine green instead of white. Because that's not a firmware controllable feature of your car.

Now changing which LEDs are on are off is something that could be done - but not sure if we've reached the "should" level yet. I have a bias - since the LEDs do not bother me. But having a menu system for selecting which LEDs to turn on/off is a lot of programming and resource investment into a purely cosmetic feature.

@David:

What does it matter that the left-most scene button is called '1" and the right-most is called "8"? No firmware update is needed in order for you to use "8" as your first scene and "7" as your second scene. That's how I do this, I program scenes starting with *'8" because it's easier to reach than "1". I see no benefit in calling the right-most scene button "1". Just program them how you see fit - there's no requirement to start from "1", or "8", or any other value. Any scene button(s) you wish can be programmed.

In a future iteration of a flagship keyboard, I've mentioned it'd be great to have scene buttons all the way across the keyboard. So maybe 16 scene buttons (or more) could be spaced out all the way from the left-to-right side of Montage's control/button area. This would bring the scene buttons slightly closer to the keys (as far as vertical position) and also the horizontal position of any scene button would be close to any hand position. Giving more freedom of which hand to actuate scene buttons - where the hands could be in proximity to the next scene button to press, etc. Also, assuming other requests get taken up (more things saved in scenes) there may be more reasons to change a scene with more control - so a higher scene count (16 or more) would be useful.

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/next-firmware-update-%E2%80%94-suggestions?viewallreplies=1#reply-12575

Jason wrote:

@G:

In order to change the color of the amber LEDs, you're going to have to pay a technician to swap out those amber LEDs with some different color and void the warranty in the process. Your car has firmware to adjust the on-board-computer which regulates idle speeds and other aspects of the car. However, you cannot call General Motors/BMW/etc. and ask for firmware to make your headlights shine green instead of white. Because that's not a firmware controllable feature of your car.

Now changing which LEDs are on are off is something that could be done - but not sure if we've reached the "should" level yet. I have a bias - since the LEDs do not bother me. But having a menu system for selecting which LEDs to turn on/off is a lot of programming and resource investment into a purely cosmetic feature.

Yeah, like I said, being able to change the colors of the LEDs is probably not possible with an OS update - that would have to be a hardware upgrade to the new Montage X 🙂

And yeah, I know the non-amber LEDs are just a personal preference - like I originally stated - First World concerns...

You do bring up a good point though... I wonder if the amber LEDs can be changed out to either the red or blue LEDs that are located elsewhere in the Montage...

Please give me any glow on a semi-tone transposed keyboard!
Those octave readings are just for people to cheap to buy a Montage 8 instead of a 6 of just to lazy to shift one octave,.
But in daily practice, when studied a song in a specific key, and the singer wants it one or two semi-tones adjusted, I need to be informed!
That´s not laziness but daily practice when playing with different performers.

Jan,

Currently if you press [SHIFT], you can see the semi-tone transposition of the keyboard by looking at the OCTAVE keys. [SHIFT]+[Octave -] or [SHIFT]+[Octave +] to set. That describes how the indicators work. I do wish the display would better indicate transpose too.

Previous posts:

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/bit-by-transpose-at-gig
and
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/button-dont-light-up-when-transpose

Second link talks about maybe using Dim/Bright/flashing and both LEDs as a way to convey keyboard is no longer non-transposed non-shifted. Off will always mean non-transposed, non-shifted. Then any LED on will show at-a-glance if keyboard is either octave shifted or transposed or both.

------

Your comment about the use of octave is a little off though. Note the 88 key keyboard does not solve that note shifting can only be done at +24/-24 limits. Therefore, even with an 88 keyboard, I would want to shift parts greater than 24 semi-tones and would use octave shift as a way to do this (on the 88). Although I've used this trick on the 61-key keyboards, there is still a reason to do this with 88 keys.

And, for me, cost was not the reason to "settle" on a less-than-88-key keyboard. The weight of the 88 was just too much to gig with for me, so I elected to compromise and get the 7 as my main "daily driver".

Although I disagree with your assumptions on why people use different features - I do agree that the display could better indicate what's going on to avoid getting "bit" at the gig.

I think I even suggest showing some flag on the touchscreen in addition to the button illumination. I would probably miss the touchscreen indicator - so flashing LEDs would be preferred.

G,

Like I said, you can have a service event swap out the LEDs. I would swap with new parts rather than "steal" from other parts of the keyboard. Surface mount LEDs of the same type are easy to source and a BOM in the service manual should outline what are good candidates. Distribution houses like Digikey or Mouser would be happy to sell you as many as you need for swapping. Red LEDs (0603 package - not sure the package used in Montage, no service manual - this is not a huge expense - but I would suggest you using a qualified service tech) are $0.07 (seven USD cents) if you get 50 of them. That's $3.05 + shipping material cost for the LEDs if red is your favorite. I guess it's worth double checking the schematics to see if they implemented amber with RED+GREEN (I doubt it) - but if they did use a dual LED, then you could just "scratch a trace" to remove the green LED which would yield red. I wouldn't, myself, scratch any traces even if I could - I would still replace with an LED that allowed for getting a new color without physically altering the PCB (traces). It's easier to go back to original without obvious rework mess.

Even with cleaning up the flux residue after the rework by a pro - the board is going to appear reworked. And extra heating event causes stress on the PCB which may lead to premature failure. Even when done correctly - a 2nd rework bond is going have more (heat) stress on the materials than the 1st manufactured bond. If these are 0402 LEDs - then this is worse since the geometries are smaller and the pads/traces start to lift more easily with these smaller geometries.

It can be done. You've been warned. But still, if so motivated - you can find someone who will accept money in order to make those LEDs a different color. Work out the "if you mess up my Montage" scenario before hand and in writing. Qualified / certified / etc. technicians that you would want doing this should be insured in the event something "bad" happens. The job will be more expensive due to your paying this overhead - but that's how insurance goes. If you go on the cheap - which can be done - then roll that dice. Boards can be ordered as replacements - so you're not out an entire keyboard. But "going cheap" may become expensive.

If you do have "unlimited" funds, then I would purchase a set of boards that have the buttons/LEDs and do modifications on the spare boards without opening the Montage. Then swap out the boards and keep the original PCBs in a safe place in case someone wants the original LED colors when you sell. You could maybe recoup some of your investment by selling the LED customization (one set or the other) as a value-add for your keyboard during selling time. You probably won't, at selling time, find someone who values this over paying less. Your affinity towards red or blue LEDs may not be universal in the used marketplace.

When I say "do the modifications" - I still mean: pay someone else to do this. Unless you're qualified.

... if you had even more "unlimited" funds (impossible, but I think you catch my drift) - then you could contract someone to make a PCB that allows for changing the color of the buttons (cycle through patterns) when you mash down a unique combination of multiple buttons. The button/LED boards tend not to have anything proprietary on them although, again, I'm not referencing the schematics to be sure. Going by previous generations - certain boards could be fairly easily replicated and tweaked to provide say different LED options. This would mean relaying out the board to accept RGB (3 vs. 1 signal) LEDs and add a circuit to manage the PWM so you could change the LED color to any value. And some method of both changing modes as well as assigning the color value. This would be a custom PCB which will likely cost more than Montage just to produce a single board - so not really the most economical path. And since hardly anyone is looking for this - you can't get enough quantity together to make the cost per board significantly decrease. I never know who's on the other end, though. Maybe different LEDs and ability to program different colors/patterns is worth around $10-15k to you. Cheaper if you find the right "overseas" talent.

Thanks Jason for the very thorough analysis 🙂

But shouldn't it be as simple as just changing out the amber LEDs for red ones?

The Montage uses red LEDs also - so it should be an "easy" swap - by a certified Yamaha technician that is...?

... we all have a limit which past this limit is "going off the deep end". It's different for everyone. For some, replacing the assignable knob dials with custom metal ones is perfectly reasonable - for some (including me) - this level of customization is far beyond what I think, for my own keyboard - it's a personal choice - is necessary and is "going off the deep end" of mods to the hardware/mechanicals.

I had not felt like I knew where you were drawing the line - so I added an even more extreme version of customization - to be able to change the LEDs to any color you want - and change your mind at any time, switching colors to something else - possibly changing groups of LEDs to different colors at will. It'd cost you more than Montage - but I have no idea who's at the other end or what the end-game really is. Even though I have my own limits for my gear, I don't push this on to other people - so if you want to do something I wouldn't do in "a million years" - I'm not going to dissuade you if there a possibility beyond calling out the warranty void and down-side type info (cost).

If you have your heart set on a color - there's not a big difference in the different colors. Red is fine - not a huge departure from amber since amber is half red. But I'm not going to critique your wavelength choice. ... what I'm getting at is that just about any color is available at around the same parts cost price. A tech is going to typically add some kind of handling fee if they get the parts for you (20% markup perhaps - or more if they feel the parts are too cheap even with markup). They may not do the job if you give them a bag of parts since they cannot verify form and fit. Depends on the tech.

I'd find one you trust and see what the cost will be to do something which requires no diagnosis at all - since nothing is broken. It's just a "will you solder this for me" type job. Let them order the parts since they do have to verify Vf and If. There are many wavelengths of "red" - so it would be good to have some sense of what red you are looking for. And brightness is another thing. There's a current limit resistor which is tuned for the amber LED Montage uses. It's going to be fine to illuminate a different color. "brightness" can be adjusted somewhat by tuning the resistor. This is also a factor of the LED part itself picked. The best info you can give to a tech is the LED wavelength desired (defines a very specific color) as well as the brightness desired (in lumens).

You may not have a sense of these parameters and your tech may not have the tools to measure - although typically you can just use specs to get a wavelength and know the lumen output at a certain current. "Same wavelength as the slider/assignable knob indicator" is sufficient since the wavelength and intensity of those LEDs can be looked up by the tech and matched. But if you want some other color - just appreciate without wavelength specified - if you say "green" there's a whole big range of what that means without giving the wavelength - so you could end up (without spec the wavelength) saying, "that's not the green I was wanting".

The package size of the red LEDs may not be the same as the package for the amber ones. I say this because generally the red LEDs (slider, superknob, assignable knob indicators) are closely spaced. That's package. The current limiting series resistor may be different (hopefully not by an amount that can be noticed) - so using the same-as-current-red-LED part in the amber position (pads) may result in a different looking red due to the "mismatch" of the series resistor value. This can be compensated by selecting a different-than-the-red-LEDs-used-on-Montage part and going back to the wavelength+lumen spec matching. Maybe the series resistors are the same everywhere - and the package is the same - then yes, you could use those same LEDs.

Once you've done a little bit of spec checking and schematic browsing (Montage service manual) - imagining that parts magically appear (no ship waiting time) - the job is a fairly simple process of tearing Montage apart - unplugging what needs unplugging - removing the boards - and getting new parts put on. Not sure how the mechanicals (button plastic) integrates with the PCB. May or may not have to snap/screw/etc. out the button hardware to get to the LED.

I'm assuming you're not going to get a 2nd set of boards (spares) to have the mods done to - so you still have an untouched original set of boards. That's fine - up to you what you're trying to optimize here.