I'm running into that annoying unproductive snag when creating splits/layers, - every time I want to audition a different patch within the split/layer, the Note Shift value is changed to the newly selected patch setting, rather than staying put at +12 (or whatever setting I made for that split). The Motif did this as well, but there was a "Param. with Voice" option in Performance Edit that you could turn off while creating the split layer that would keep that Part in the Octave range I wanted until I changed it. I didn't see one, so just wondering.

You are starting to notice that the Montage is not a Motif (and that's ultimately a good thing... Because, necessarily some things will have to be different). In this instance it's because of the change in the architecture. There actually is a " Parameter with Part" function, but necessarily it is different from the XF.

The Motif stored what were called "Voices" in special memory locations, and you were actually applying "Offset parameters" to that original data when you combined Voices in Performances or Mixing setups. Combining Voices on the Motif was facilitated by placing the Voice in an entity called a "PART". Your Motif Part parameters were simply a set of "offsets" applied non-destructively, to the original data, held elsewhere in memory. For example, the Voice "Full Concert Grand" in the original program is mapped across the full range of MIDI, C-2 thru G8. However, when placed in a "Part", the Part parameters may set a Note Limit range of C3~G8, to create the right hand of a split. The Motif Part parameters simply apply this offset to the original Voice data. This allows Full Concert Grand can be used in a dozen Performances or Mixing setups, Note Limited differently in each one, (all without destructively changing the original a Full Concert Grand data). Montage foes not reference data like this, at all.

As you get to know Montage you will start to realize and appreciate that each "Part" is stored as a unique separate entity. There is no original VOICE that is being referenced through the "offset" parameter set, as in Motif. Your Montage Part is not applying an offset to an original location, each Montage Part is an autonomous program and is an original location.

You can copy any Part, or if you select to assign a program to a Part - you are literally creating a new Part, so there is no parameter OFFSET framework sitting in place when you add a new program. There is no inheriting the Note Shift, or the Note Limits, or the like, as in Motif. It is a totally different architecture when it comes to the old Voice and the new autonomous Part. The parameters of the Montage program Part you are selecting are what they are programmed.

Once the program is copied or placed into a slot you can then change the value.

So the VOICE > PART relationship as in Motif is very different for Montage; a Part is not referencing anything, it is its own thing. . In the Motif the Part parameters could be inherited - as you know, you could reference a new Voice and the Part parameters stayed. A cool shortcut for that architecture. You could switch the assigned program and it would inherit the Part offsets.

In Montage there are no VOICES, per se, each slot is a wholly individual program. Nothing to inherit... You are working on the actual program's parameters. It is not referencing data stored elsewhere, as in Motif.

If not, this would be a convenient feature/option to add in an update, - even if it's just for Note Shift Values, while creating User Performances.

There is actually a "Parameter with Part" function... And what it does in the Montage engine is allow you to bring along the additional set of "offsets" that this engine introduces. "Arps/MS", "Scenes", "Zone"

For example, a PART is a complete entity which can also (temporarily) include 8 ARPS and 8 MOTION SEQUENCES... These are not really apart of the Part but are swappable additions; SCENE settings can also be included or not when you select a Part. In a similar fashion the Scene settings are not really a permanent part of the program - they are storable 'offsets' to Volume, Pan, Effect Sends, Dry Level, Cutoff, Resonance, FEG Depth, Mute status, Super Knob, etc. These parameters are those that are "applied" to the basic PART programming, and are typically dynamically changed during normal performing. And finally, ZONE settings can be brought along or not when you select a Part. In Montage each PART can have its own Zone settings that you can link to it. So setting up an internal and external Part can be facilitated.

So there is no "Parameter with Voice" because there is no Voice mode in Montage.
There is now "Parameter with Part" because there are only Parts.

When you are looking to substitute one Part by searching for another (touch the Part's "Type/Name" box) a pop-in box comes in from the left allowing you to SEARCH. the option appears to OPT OUT... on "Parameter with Part". (Arps/MS, Scenes, Zones).

New synth, new rules. That all said, I understand that you would like to have at least Note Shift as, perhaps, a parameter on the Montage "Mixer". Because you want to select whether or not the newly select program for Part inherits the setting for tuning. Note Shift has not traditionally, been a parameter setup for dynamic change. The paradigm here (and it has other advantages) is that each Part is unique, and totally independent. It comes into your custom Performance with a complete copy of the core program. It does not inherit parameters from the slot.

Thanks Phil. Aha, I see! SO. In other words it's an issue of direction of data/information. On Motif the Voice was coming 'into a part that applied offsets to voices, so the parameters from "param. with voice" were coming from the Part of the Performance and sort of superimposing them on the Voice. On Montage, the Parameters of "Param. with part" are coming INTO the Part from the settings of the Patch. In a sense, asking if you want to bring those offsets into the Part from the Patch. On means Yes, and Off means No. Is that sound?

I have to say, while this may be annoying in the short term, I like the new way better. So I can set up and use a Layered Performance as a template, utilizing motion control etc., and use that as a starting point for any Split that I create later, based on that 'template'. For example, a Brass Layer where all the control elements that I prefer are saved and in place. Then use that Template Performance as the start of 3 different Split/Layer Performances, i.e. Brass and EP vs Brass and Piano vs Brass and strings or whatever. Cool.

With that, then, Phil, I have a request. 🙂 You wrote some incredibly helpful and eye-opening walk-throughs for Motif long ago on Motifator. Sample and Slice, Performance Mode, and one all about controlling Performances to jog your memory. These are just a few that immediately come to mind because I constantly referred to them over the years as needed. Could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE write one walking us through the creation of Performances on Montage. I'm getting the hang of it but the best practices and the detailed explanations of why things worked the way they worked would be so very helpful toward helping us because fluent with this new system. For example: A walkthrough of a single but complex Split/Layer Performance that has 1) a one shot sample on one note; and with a turn of the knob: 2) a piano sound where strings come in(a layer); 3) replaced by a mono lead sound in another area(a swap); and/or an octave at that top where brass swells or changes to falls. Just an example, but one that demonstrates how these actions are best accomplished with new system.

Just a thought. In any event, thanks again for the info!
G

We've already started a series of articles on programming Montage. To avoid every article having to refer to each and every step, you want to get some of the fundamental things under your belt before you go creating your own PERFORMANCES. Please join us in the RESOURCES area of this site for the "Programming Basics" which will introduce a lot of the fundamental assignments and navigation through the architecture. Even helps (hopefully) make sense out of the lights on the front panel and viewing data. And I think it unfolds it in small steps with Performance examples.

The Owner's Manual's QUICK GUIDE gives the basics of creating a PERFORMANCE.

...the best practices and the detailed explanations of why things worked the way they worked would be so very helpful toward helping us because fluent with this new system. For example: A walkthrough of a single but complex Split/Layer Performance that has 1) a one shot sample on one note; and with a turn of the knob: 2) a piano sound where strings come in(a layer); 3) replaced by a mono lead sound in another area(a swap); and/or an octave at that top where brass swells or changes to falls. Just an example, but one that demonstrates how these actions are best accomplished with new system.

I couldn't write that all in one article, but you have to get to each of those things a step at a time. And creativity is on the individual, how you combine and program beyond the basics is really up to you... For example, once you learn how to import an new Waveform into a PART, how you use it and what you morph it with is up to you. But the skills are probably best learned individually... one step at a time.

Again please see the Getting Started with Montage and the Programming Basics series. Going on now. We're up to the eighth or ninth article now...

Hi Gary,

Gary wrote:Could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE write one walking us through the creation of Performances on Montage. I'm getting the hang of it but the best practices and the detailed explanations of why things worked the way they worked would be so very helpful toward helping us because fluent with this new system.

meanwhile you can take a look a the latest issue of our Music Production Guide in which I covered the first steps building Performances. 😉

Hope you like it.

Best ...

hp

Excellent!!!!

Excellent indeed!

Hans-Peter,
Fantastic articles in the Music Production Guide. I read January thru April. LOTS of great information, I highly recommend the read for everyone. I'm excited to see what the May issue brings, - please hurry :). Thank you!

Phil,
Thank you for the heads up regarding the additional Programming Basics articles, - I had not seen the link to the other articles before.

Finally Phil, I was thinking an even better idea/solution for the original issue (octave settings per part when creating Splits/Layers) would be to simply have octave range control for each Part right from the Performance Play screen. Either there or perhaps on the Search page when selecting a new Part...? Somewhere where it doesn't take as many taps to make this important setting when creating a Split/Layer. As of now you have to: select the Part, -tap Edit, -tap Pitch, -double-tap Note Shift, -then enter your value, which could take three more taps or several rotations of the dial. Admittedly, this isn't terrible, but it seems that it could be better. All of the other basic settings for creating Split/Layers are right in front of us on Performance Play screen.

Thanks again for your time and information,
G