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Limit (+24 semitones with sample rate 44100 Hz) on traspose of Waveform

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There are limitations and bug when using user Waveform in a Normal Part AWM2
The first limitation is the range of upper transpose: when you load a waveform ([PERFORMANCE]->[EDIT] ->Part selection->Element selection -> [Osc/Tune]-> β€œNew Waveform”) there is a limit (+24 semitone with samplerate 44100 ; + 22 semitone with samplerate 48000,....). When you play higher notes (over 24 semitones), the are fixed notes.
The same limitation there is when you create a .x3W single o multisample (i use Awave Studio) and you import it in Montage. (In my "old" Yamaha Sy-85 the is not this limit πŸ™‚ )
In addition there is a very annoying bug: always when you load a Waveform o import a .x3W file, THE SAME FILE sometimes is loaded producing clicks, sometimes is loaded playing without clicks. I use a USB key "certified" from your site.

I'm hoping for a correction in the next firmware

 
Posted : 16/09/2016 10:27 am
 Phil
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When you are talking about upper transpose are you referring to the note shift of the part or the osc tune parameter? I know that note shift is limited to +/- 24 but the osc tune coarse extends to +/- 48.

 
Posted : 16/09/2016 11:50 am
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Note shift of the part πŸ™‚ when you play keyboard.
Of course, the problem can be overcome with multisampling, but there are situations where you have a single sample!!

 
Posted : 16/09/2016 12:16 pm
Christine
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Yes, I reported this a while ago and hoped it would be fixed in 1.2. Sadly it isn't πŸ™

 
Posted : 16/09/2016 12:28 pm
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yes Christine πŸ˜€ .
the big problem is the random error in loading waves and x3W single o multisample

 
Posted : 16/09/2016 12:42 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Nothing to fix, it is not actually broken. The engine in the Montage is quite different (for those who haven't noticed) from the previous Motif series. And particularly in this respect. The Montage supports stereo samples in a way the XF didn't. With each note being sampled, in most cases, there is really no need to stretch samples across wide ranges of notes. Maybe we can get an in depth interview with the design team, to explain the innovations that are part of what makes Montage unique. I'm a musician, we see if we can get an engineer to explain

The samples and the engine, as I understand it are optimized, to focus on reproducing musical instruments through multi-samples. The days of stretching one sample across the entire range are over. I'm sure there are those folks who will miss this but...

The XF could deal with LPC (data) a type of linear compression... These waves are not seen by Montage.

These are questions best put to engineers. I'll see if I can get them to share details. Meantime, what is it that you require to do?

If you need to build a single wave that can be stretched the entire width of the keyboard without any issues, try building it with the FM-X engine.
Samples are not the best tool for such stretching.

 
Posted : 20/09/2016 12:37 am
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Engineer feedback (for this, and somewhat more generally):

It would be nice to have some engineer feedback if there are some topics they are willing to chime in on. For me, I'd be interested if there is any additional information which can be shared in order to arrive at more deterministic result values from a motion sequence. in other words, a formula which I can use to determine how the two curves of motion sequence interact to produce a resultant value. This resultant value is what is fed into the assigned destination(s). I haven't seen this sort of information detailed. For now, I don't need the hysteresis algorithm for "smoothing" - or the formula for calculating values on various default curves (standard, triangle, etc). For now, just relating "Hold" (with two non-zero example ratios on the Control Assign "Hold" curve) to a motion sequence user curve with two different step values (motion sequence user curve 1-4 step value = one/same value, motion sequence user curve 5-8 = second/same value). By "same" I mean 1-4 are the same value and 4-8 are all the same value which is a different value than 1-4. Knowing how to compute the resulting value will help understand more about what's going on.

Only touching on "stretching" - which may take on some different word (other than "stretching") if another technique to accomplish the same sort of thing is employed:

It sounds like sample stretching (I mean, a different term which also adds more adaptive math to make sure it doesn't sound "as bad" as early romplers) is utilized as many performances (maybe different pianos, organs, electric pianos, violins, etc) have obvious inflection points where I imagine the "break" is between one sample and the next. Could be other reasons why there's that change in sound "quality" (not as in good/bad - but in terms of harmonics, amplitude, or other audible changes) such as the violin - the "break" where a different string is sampled. I would think pianos would be more even. What I hear is multiple ranges (sets) of notes vs. another with an identifiable "this key" and "this next key" kind of difference between the ranges.

None of this is bad though - sounds great to me.

And again off on the (only slightly related to topic) deep end:

Sympathetic string resonance and other DSP-type stuff would be nice - but my ears do not really miss this much vs. "the other guys". Would be kind of cool if an FPGA/DSP could be inserted into the signal chain with a module to add this sort of thing at a price. Would also allow for maybe 3rd party hardware support of things like Leslie simulator alternatives to the built-in ones. Maybe a convention for the module to also have a part that "sticks out" past the rear (or side) of the keyboard allowing for additional hardware knobs to be added for things like an analog board. Maybe not worth the cost (connectors, muxes)/support drain (internally including 3rd party and external=customer) - and one can see the arc of all others who have done this eventually return to a closed system (historical).

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 21/09/2016 7:31 am
Posts: 74
Trusted Member
 

quotes of mr BM

The Montage supports stereo samples in a way the XF didn't. With each note being sampled, in most cases, there is really no need to stretch samples across wide ranges of notes.

So please, tell me how do I load multi-sampled waveforms and map them?

For a multi-sampled AWM Instrument Part.

And set key range and base notes.

 
Posted : 21/09/2016 4:09 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

By definition a multi-sampled Waveform is already mapped. The Montage can load Waveforms created in the Motif XF.
What you want to do, the focus of your question, is to create Waveforms in the Montage. You cannot, it is not a sampler. The Montage can import (completed) Waveforms ...

A Yamaha "Waveform" is an audio recording that has been mapped to a region of the MIDI keyboard, and has been given a velocity range to which it will respond.

No official announcement (yet) on the timing on a Montage Waveform Editor. When we find out, you'll hear about it here.

Currently, you can import .wav to a Drum Kit... But you are limited in what all you can do versus what you could do in a full fledged sampler.

 
Posted : 21/09/2016 4:57 pm
Posts: 74
Trusted Member
 

I thank you very much for your reply.

I have my own Multi-samples that I have made myself, with loops.
Several wave files for one Instrument ( C1,C2,C3...).
I would love to load them in to the Montage as a element waveform.

Drum waves works perfectly to load (and map) in Montage.

Only a small modification on drumpart wave load function is needed to make it work for the AWM2 part.
Namely key range.

a Montage Waveform Editor feels like a big project in comparison with key range/root key in montage AWM2 element wave load.

One can always hope.;)

 
Posted : 21/09/2016 7:10 pm
Stefan
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

Thomas wrote:
a Montage Waveform Editor feels like a big project in comparison with key range/root key in montage AWM2 element wave load. One can always hope.;)

Hi Thomas, you most probably know this already and I am most probably missing something. But just in case: There is actually a perfectly working waveform editor available. I used it to create samples easily: John Melas Motif Waveform Editor does the job nicely for me...

 
Posted : 21/09/2016 8:51 pm
Posts: 74
Trusted Member
 

Hi Stefan

And thanks for your reply.

 
Posted : 22/09/2016 12:42 am
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