If you want to avoid using Cubase to record something in-the-ballpark of what you've described, I'd suggest changing how you deal with the "background music". Instead of playing back a WAV file from the USB stick, I would suggest using a drum key to trigger the audio file. So this would mean importing the audio file into a drum PART waveform and then use a piano key (drum key) to trigger this audio file one-shot. So the entire audio file will play in the "background" after you press the associated drum key.

This may or may not work for you depending on your usage of keys. I would place the trigger key either as the lowest or highest drum key. And today there are even more options where you can strike the piano key which triggers the audio - then press a blue Scene button which will turn keyboard control OFF for the drum part (for playing the audio) which means that pressing this same key again will not retrigger anything because now keyboard control is OFF for this PART.

You may not want to fiddle with this - but it's a way to get it to work without adding too much complexity (albeit some).

hello Jason, this solution sounds cool and working for me ! great when it will work. i will try it out tomorrow and let you know if i was able to do it 🙂 i am a starter on the montage 🙂 is there some limit to the wave-backgound file (max minutes or max file size ?) . so, the montage will take this all in the performance memory and when i save the performance on an usb stick, it will write it down ? sounds very good for me this solution and 1 key , i can easy spend on the 88 keys of the montage to active the play back. again thank you very much ! maybe yamaha will think about to make such workarounds more comfortable for user. should be not as complicated to develope from the software and user-interface. lets hope some day they will do 🙂 your idea is good for this solution !.

cheers

Werner

In order to use WAV files - they need to conform to what Montage expects. I'd recommend 44.1kHz sampling rate, at 16-bits (or 24-bits) - and also in stereo.

See this thread: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/save-and-trigger-a-wav-file-within-a-performance

... which walks you through using a drum key. There's also links to other messages which may help - but the entire solution is within this thread with pictures.

maybe yamaha will think about to make such workarounds more comfortable for user. should be not as complicated to develope from the software and user-interface. lets hope some day they will do 🙂 your idea is good for this solution !.

A bit of history for you, Werner...

Back in the late 1990’s when Yamaha was developing what would become the “Motif-series” (2001) we thought it was a grand idea to integrate a sampler and a sequencer into a workstation product... where you could not only sample to create instrument sounds but synchronize linear and looping audio clips (samples) with the built-in MIDI sequencer. That was the ISS (Integrated Sampling Sequencer) and the ability to record itself was referred to as a “RESAMPLE”. (You can read about it... it was quite successful!)

By the time the Motif XF (2010) this was refined to a very practical workflow... you can read all about here in the following article:
Motif XF: Creating Data Resampling

If you scanned through that bit of history, you’ll note that the only difference in the current MONTAGE-series is instead of internal sample RAM for resampling... (the MONTAGE does not have a sampler), you must use an external USB stick to document your playing and then you must import the .wav creating a Waveform.
But every other step of the process is pretty much standard and the same...

To synchronize audio with MIDI, (and this was the key to making the ISS work), you must “cue” the start of audio to a musical subdivision (a Note-On is used to trigger a sample). And you must work at the original tempo. The difference between regular audio and ‘sampled’ audio is a sample is audio that is “cued” to begin precisely with Note-On, and ends precisely with Note-Off. That Note-On event can also determine ‘how loud’ it sounds. Regular audio simply plays back once started and volume is totally detached from starting playback. A sample is audio operated by musical events (Note-ons/offs, Velocity value)...

The Integrated Sampling Sequencer in the Motif XF would create a Note-On event with the precise duration (Gate Time)... it created these when you automated record punch in and out. The source could be the A/D Input, called “sampling”, or could be the internal synth as input, called “resampling”.

As it was with the XF, you must take your audio and place it in a Waveform. The AWM2 engine is made of samples that play from Note-On to Note-Off, you simply have to place your USB stick audio in a Waveform. So for all intents — it is a very similar to the process introduced by the Motif series almost two decades ago! How the data is handled and stored and retrieved evolves following the most cost effective way to accomplish the goal. (What you are trying to do is well within the bounds of possibility... the maximum length of an audio clip is going to be 6 minutes and 20 seconds, btw).

The Motif started with SIMMs with SCSI, and then DIMMs with SmartMedia cards... it was volatile RAM in the early days, it has evolved to where we are now... the memory type allows the most flexible use for the widest user base.

The basics are exactly the same: move your recorded/prepared* audio into a MONTAGE Waveform, Direct a Part’s AWM2 Element to access that Waveform. Use a MIDI Note-On Event to control audio play.

*prepared — you must ensure that audio is “cued” to begin with a Note-On event. When recording your MONTAGE to the USB stick use the “Trigger” method to begin USB stick audio recording. This will ensure you can musically control the Waveform playback.

Extra Credit:
Recording a MONTAGE real-time performance directly to a USB stick, is the easy way to create your so-called backing tracks. The result is a stereo 24-bit .wav at 44.1kHz... This can be played back by a variety of audio playback devices. There are advantages (beyond being just the easiest method) to playing your backing tracks from an external playback device via the A/D Input. Transfer your .wav file to a playback device you can connect to the A/D Input... phone/tablet/ handheld recorder, etc.

Signal arriving via the MONTAGE A/D Input has its own audio channel into the Motion Control Synthesis Engine. This means not only will it sound great playing back, it can be used to interact with whatever you are going to be playing on a fully functional MONTAGE front panel.

The A/D Input can interact as a modulation source, it can control tempo, it can be processed with its own dual Insertion Effects, it can be used a Side Chain source — even as the Vocoder input! You can even use the Super Knob to interact what you are performing “live” with its playback!

Just thought I mention that... because knowing the history you’d probably come to this conclusion, as well. But yes, you can still recreate the ‘RESAMPLE’ routine, albeit you need an external flash stick, you replace the onboard memory with a convenient USB stick. You can still trigger the audio playback manually with Note-On events (just like we did in 2001)... but...

__ Why not take that stereo “backing” and run it as an audio in source? ... the new things you can do with incoming audio is the stuff we dreamed about back in the Motif-series days!

Hope that perspective helps... You have choices!

In order to use WAV files - they need to conform to what Montage expects. I'd recommend 44.1kHz sampling rate, at 16-bits (or 24-bits) - and also in stereo.

See this thread: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/save-and-trigger-a-wav-file-within-a-performance

... which walks you through using a drum key. There's also links to other messages which may help - but the entire solution is within this thread with pictures.

Jason. again thank a lot. i will try it after i read the details in the given URL. thank you again for the help

- Werner

maybe yamaha will think about to make such workarounds more comfortable for user. should be not as complicated to develope from the software and user-interface. lets hope some day they will do 🙂 your idea is good for this solution !.

A bit of history for you, Werner...

Back in the late 1990’s when Yamaha was developing what would become the “Motif-series” (2001) we thought it was a grand idea to integrate a sampler and a sequencer into a workstation product... where you could not only sample to create instrument sounds but synchronize linear and looping audio clips (samples) with the built-in MIDI sequencer. That was the ISS (Integrated Sampling Sequencer) and the ability to record itself was referred to as a “RESAMPLE”. (You can read about it... it was quite successful!)

By the time the Motif XF (2010) this was refined to a very practical workflow... you can read all about here in the following article:
Motif XF: Creating Data Resampling

If you scanned through that bit of history, you’ll note that the only difference in the current MONTAGE-series is instead of internal sample RAM for resampling... (the MONTAGE does not have a sampler), you must use an external USB stick to document your playing and then you must import the .wav creating a Waveform.
But every other step of the process is pretty much standard and the same...

To synchronize audio with MIDI, (and this was the key to making the ISS work), you must “cue” the start of audio to a musical subdivision (a Note-On is used to trigger a sample). And you must work at the original tempo. The difference between regular audio and ‘sampled’ audio is a sample is audio that is “cued” to begin precisely with Note-On, and ends precisely with Note-Off. That Note-On event can also determine ‘how loud’ it sounds. Regular audio simply plays back once started and volume is totally detached from starting playback. A sample is audio operated by musical events (Note-ons/offs, Velocity value)...

The Integrated Sampling Sequencer in the Motif XF would create a Note-On event with the precise duration (Gate Time)... it created these when you automated record punch in and out. The source could be the A/D Input, called “sampling”, or could be the internal synth as input, called “resampling”.

As it was with the XF, you must take your audio and place it in a Waveform. The AWM2 engine is made of samples that play from Note-On to Note-Off, you simply have to place your USB stick audio in a Waveform. So for all intents — it is a very similar to the process introduced by the Motif series almost two decades ago! How the data is handled and stored and retrieved evolves following the most cost effective way to accomplish the goal. (What you are trying to do is well within the bounds of possibility... the maximum length of an audio clip is going to be 6 minutes and 20 seconds, btw).

The Motif started with SIMMs with SCSI, and then DIMMs with SmartMedia cards... it was volatile RAM in the early days, it has evolved to where we are now... the memory type allows the most flexible use for the widest user base.

The basics are exactly the same: move your recorded/prepared* audio into a MONTAGE Waveform, Direct a Part’s AWM2 Element to access that Waveform. Use a MIDI Note-On Event to control audio play.

*prepared — you must ensure that audio is “cued” to begin with a Note-On event. When recording your MONTAGE to the USB stick use the “Trigger” method to begin USB stick audio recording. This will ensure you can musically control the Waveform playback.

Extra Credit:
Recording a MONTAGE real-time performance directly to a USB stick, is the easy way to create your so-called backing tracks. The result is a stereo 24-bit .wav at 44.1kHz... This can be played back by a variety of audio playback devices. There are advantages (beyond being just the easiest method) to playing your backing tracks from an external playback device via the A/D Input. Transfer your .wav file to a playback device you can connect to the A/D Input... phone/tablet/ handheld recorder, etc.

Signal arriving via the MONTAGE A/D Input has its own audio channel into the Motion Control Synthesis Engine. This means not only will it sound great playing back, it can be used to interact with whatever you are going to be playing on a fully functional MONTAGE front panel.

The A/D Input can interact as a modulation source, it can control tempo, it can be processed with its own dual Insertion Effects, it can be used a Side Chain source — even as the Vocoder input! You can even use the Super Knob to interact what you are performing “live” with its playback!

Just thought I mention that... because knowing the history you’d probably come to this conclusion, as well. But yes, you can still recreate the ‘RESAMPLE’ routine, albeit you need an external flash stick, you replace the onboard memory with a convenient USB stick. You can still trigger the audio playback manually with Note-On events (just like we did in 2001)... but...

__ Why not take that stereo “backing” and run it as an audio in source? ... the new things you can do with incoming audio is the stuff we dreamed about back in the Motif-series days!

Hope that perspective helps... You have choices!

hello Bad Mister,

thanks a lot to inform me abou the history. i really like the monetage product. i am a car technican and a software engeneer and i am not want to be some music specialist who must care about every note. yes, you are right with your understanding about start and stop the audio file and to think about the harmonie for the overall performance. in my case, it is not that big problem. as audio file, i have some self recorderd ocean wave sound and its about 5 min and in the quality what was coming out from my samsung s10 mobilphone :-). i just wanted to use this ocean sound overall in the performance and use other instruments like piano and strings and maybe some little bass beat to bring up some chill music for myself. in my case, my workaound is mostly like this : first i have some story (mostly some human event) of a new music which i want create. start - middle part - end part. than i think about the instruments which i can use to play with and mix them. and in some cases, i have a story like a walk closed to the ocean and to express in the music about the walk, the listenings, the own thinking and the inspiration which i got when i did the walk. i am an poor starter in the music area. i like music . i like much chill music, dance, electro. especially music from the german Schiller guy , i like much. the montage 8 is really a dream product for my understanding. only some little more ... maybe only a little bit more care about the customers to give them the background info and some solutions for it, would even make the product better and better. you and Jason here in this forum do it in an excelent way. thanks again for it ! i appreciate all the given infos. i am an single guy ... i not have some other instruments ... for me to create some chill or mystery sound, the montage is perfect. before i bought it, i looked also much to korg and their workstation. but the technology in the korg seems to be too old a bit and maybe also the realistic sounds like the piano sound from the yamaha, they not have in this quality. yes, it seems, that with this product, people have unlimited power to create everything. but as for me, i not like to have the montage connected to some tablet or pc where cubase is listening. i want to stay on 1 product and this product should deliver me some music which i create in my way. otherwise, i have to fight with bugs or un-knowledge about myself on 2 sides .-) (montage and cubase)

you final question : __ "Why not take that stereo “backing” and run it as an audio in source? ... the new things you can do with incoming audio is the stuff we dreamed about back in the Motif-series days! "

because like i told, i want that the imported audio ocean wave sound is a part of my exported wave file on the usb stick, which is stored by the montage after i record my life performance. maybe i not get your idea or you not see my stupid simple needs 🙂 anyway thanks a lot for the history .... much much work from yamaha with all this products ! my respect for this long run !

- Werner

Hi Werner,

Bad Mister said this: ""Why not take that stereo “backing” and run it as an audio in source? ... the new things you can do with incoming audio is the stuff we dreamed about back in the Motif-series days! "

What he is talking about is running the ocean wave sound via audio connection, either through the MONTAGE A/D input from a source like an MP3 player, pocket recorder, etc., or if you have an iOS device you could connect that via an Apple Lightning to USB connector and USB cable via the USB To Host port. Additionally you can set MONTAGE to "Global A/D" under Utility/Effect Switch. This allows you to switch Performances while the ocean wave sound plays in the background and do different creative things. I think this solution is better for you than using the Performance recorder and playing the USB audio file from here.

Hope that clarifies!

hi Blake, ah ok ... i got it . i will try with the A/D input. yes, you are right : to change the performance while you record, was not working. i will try it. thanks for the clarify

- Werner