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Can anyone confirm that insert (InsA or InsB) parameters whose name is just a number means that parameter is NOT valid as a destination?
I haven't seen any documentation or confirmation of that but testing appears to show that VALID parameters will have an actual name/acronym when listed in the destination sub-menu.
When making control assignments you use a drop down to select a destination category. For an Init Normal (AWM2) the list is:
Ins A
Ins B
Part Param
Element
Part Param 2
VCM Rotary
Then selecting one of those categories shows a sub menu of available choices
For Ins A and Ins B the default list of choices is a list of 24 parameters listed by number: InsA Param 1, InsA Param 2, ..., InsA Param 24 for Insert A
The Init performance has one part with one element and the defect effect for Ins A (and Ins B) is 'Thru' so my assumption is that there are NO valid destination parameters for either insert effect even though 24 are listed in the sub-menu.
The above is just explanatory to help understand the actual question/issue.
Choose the first available effect for Ins A (using menus) which is 'Reverb -> SPX Hall'.
Go to the 'Mod / Control -> Control Assign' screen and select the '+' sign to bring up the destination choices and choose 'Ins A'.
Notice that the list still contains 24 entries but with some choices having names while the others still have the original number. In particular
parms 2,3,6,7,8,9,11,12 have numbers
Limited testing appears to indicate only those parameters with actual names are valid destinations. The table on page 160 of the Data List doc shows the parameter list table for 'Reverb -> SPX Hall'. There are 16 slots in the table but only slots 1,2,3,4,5,...,10,11,12,13,14,15 have entries
Thus parms 2 and 3 are listed in the table but in the destination menu are listed as 'Ins A Param 2' and 'Ins A Param 3' - similarly for parms 11 and 12.
Parms 6,7,8,9 are not listed in the table but ARE listed in the destination menu using their parameter number.
NOTE: if you choose a 'preset' for the same effect the above parm settings seem to be unchanged. But if you choose a different effect then you get a different mix of parms with names and parms with numbers.
This strongly suggests that ALL parms with actual names are valid destinations for their respective effects. Meaning that Yamaha gave ALL valid destination parms names. Obviously it isn't reasonable to try to do an exhaustive test to confirm this.
Does anyone have any info confirming this is true? I have emailed support to try to get an answer.
Posted : 27/07/2024 9:33 pm
The available parameters will have "friendly" names. Yamaha has previously commented that some parameters are not available as destinations because they thought modulating them would result in unmusical results. My response was that synthesizers have a long history of unintended consequences of allowing for unmusical combinations. And some of these have become the mainstream. In other words, just because modulating initial delay time of SPX reverb causes a "ripping" sound doesn't mean we shouldn't allow this. Some may really want this kind of sound.
You'll notice that the parameters that are not named in a friendly way yet exist in the table also do not light up the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button if you select the parameter to edit its value in the InsA/B settings.
Posted : 28/07/2024 7:15 am
Topic starter
Yamaha has previously commented that some parameters are not available as destinations because they thought modulating them would result in unmusical results.
In my email to support asking them to confirm the 'name' versus 'number' denoted a parms availability as a destintion I also suggested they add an '*' to the entries in the 'Effect Parameter List' section of the Data List doc since that section has the info people need and can use when planning their control assignments.
You'll notice that the parameters that are not named in a friendly way yet exist in the table also do not light up the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button if you select the parameter to edit its value in the InsA/B settings.
Thanks for mentioning - until you pointed it out I didn't know about that correlation. My brain keeps wanting to think that it wouldn't be available (or would be inactive) in the menu if it couldn't be used. But you can easily make the assignment to all the parms but you won't get any result from the numbered ones.
Which means, of course, I now have to examine every possible effect combination to document which parms are really available.
This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Toby
Posted : 28/07/2024 5:41 pm
Topic starter
Yamaha support confirmed that in the Ins A and Ins B destination dropdown menu only VALID insert A or B destination parameters have names and that numbered parameters are NOT valid destinations as Jason surmised earlier.
Posted : 29/07/2024 1:06 am
... worth noting that this is all exactly the same for Montage M and Montage classic. As mentioned before - there are very "small" incremental changes between Yamaha synths. Motif and Montage were very similar in most respects with a few (important) new features here and there. The "DNA" and most of the system will be very familiar to anyone who's owned a Yamaha synth in the past 20+ years.
Posted : 29/07/2024 4:45 am
