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M8X - Exit from Utility screen required to save changed parameters across power down

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 Toby
Posts: 475
Honorable Member
Topic starter
 

Haven't found it documented anywhere but tests on my M8X show that making changes on the 'Utility -> Settings -> MIDI I/O' screen followed by a power OFF while still on that (or other) Utility screen does NOT preserve the parameter changes.

1. Power ON

2. go to 'Utility -> Settings -> MIDI I/O' screen

3. observe that 'Local Control' is ON - change it to OFF

4. Power OFF

5. Power ON - revisit the screen

6. observe that 'Local Control' is ON - the change to OFF was NOT preserved

Test #2

7. change 'Local Control' to OFF

8. use the EXIT button (or other method) to leave the 'Utility' function

9. Power OFF

10. Power ON - revisit the screen

11. observe that 'Local Control' is OFF - the change to OFF was preserved

The above results apply to parms on other tabs/screens on the Utility section: knob flash, knob brightness on the System tab and parms on the AUDIO I/O tab.

I haven't done an exhaustive test of every tab/screen/parm in the utility section.

Q1 - is it documented somewhere that you must leave the Utility section before a power OFF in order to save utility changes?

Q2 - do tests on a classic Montage give the same results?

 
Posted : 20/09/2024 1:36 am
Jason
Posts: 8357
Illustrious Member
 

Using classic when I tried to make changes to the quick templates, they didn't seem to save.   I didn't seem to have the same problem with other settings but I may have not followed exactly the same steps for both.  Maybe your observations apply.  I'd have to take a second look and try these M based suggestions.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 20/09/2024 5:36 pm
 Toby
Posts: 475
Honorable Member
Topic starter
 

Exiting the Utility section makes all the difference.

Using classic when I tried to make changes to the quick templates, they didn't seem to save. 

That is what happened to me. I was doing some testing for Daniel's 'different process for record arpeggio to daw' and got 'local control' changed to OFF but then couldn't put it back to ON after a power cycle.

I just happened to discover the 'fix' accidentally later when I had set 'local control' back to ON but then left utilities to do other things before turning power OFF. Then, to my surprise, when I powered up 'local control' was still ON and it took me a while to figure out why.

The 'Quick Setup' screen has a 'Store Current Settings' button but, curiously, that doesn't allow you to change the 'Standalone' template.

On the M8X -

1. To save changes to 'Standalone' template you MUST exit the Utility section before a Power OFF event or the changes will be lost

2. To save changes to the other templates you MUST use the 'Store Current Settings' button before a Power OFF event or the changes will be lost. Exiting the Utility section will NOT preserve changes to the other 3 templates - only the button will.

3. Do NOT select a template after making changes you want to preserve - selecting a template loads the stored template settings so may subvert the changes you were trying to make to the template.

Make the changes (e.g. 'Direct Monitor' on the Audio I/O screen) return to the 'Quick Setup' screen and use the 'Store Current Settings' button and select the template from the dropdown - do NOT select the template from the screen before pressing the button or the changes are lost.

Not sure why they don't add 'Standalone' to the dropdown so that you can change that template using the button.

 
Posted : 20/09/2024 6:52 pm
 Toby
Posts: 475
Honorable Member
Topic starter
 

Utility -> Settings -> System parms are a mixed bag.

The bank, page and slot for 'Initial Live Set' are auto-saved when changed even with an immediate power OFF.

But after changing any of the other parms you will lose the changes if you don't exit the Utility section first.

This is for an M8X - don't know about M6/M7 or classic Montage.

Sure makes it hard to know what is saved between shutdowns.

 
Posted : 20/09/2024 9:23 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

Para-phrasing Black Adder:-

 

Issue :- "It rains so hard it makes your head bleed"

Solution :- "Wear a Hat".

 

An apparently big issue across the Synth Industry,  not just with Yamaha,  is that when setting Global "Local Off",  this status is not "saved" through a Power Cycle.  

This puts the user through an extremely frustrating situation where they have to set "Local Off" again on Power On. 

A parallel trend is currently condemning the otherwise popular Boss/Roland Effects Pedals, because they power up in an "On State" requiring the user to turn them off.

Its plain to see that even if the simple "toe-tap" action of turning them "off" still takes a few milliseconds of the user's time. 

If you multiply those milliseconds over tens of thousands of sold pedals,  it amounts to over an hour of accumulated wasted time. 

I kind of see why this is totally unacceptable,  and why manufacturers really need to make more of an effort. 

Nobody really cares about how products sound any more (it is irrelevant to some degree),  but what really matters is that they work exactly how the discerning users expect. 

I note that, forward thinking Synth Manufacturers "ASM" (Hydrasynth) actually realised this was a massive show stopper and "fixed it" in a Software Release.   Now you can specifically "save" the state,  and if you are too much of an idiot to remember or too lazy to switch on/off,  there is now a big status read out on the Display that will tell you whether you are in "LOCAL ON"  or "LOCAL OFF"  mode. 

Come on Yamaha....  you really need to listen to this guy "Toby"...  he knows what Yamaha Users want and how to fix it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Posted : 21/09/2024 12:14 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

Para-phrasing Black Adder:-

 

Issue :- "It rains so hard it makes your head bleed"

Solution :- "Wear a Hat".

 

An alledgedly big issue across the Synth Industry,  not just with Yamaha,  is that when setting Global "Local Off",  this status is not "saved" through a Power Cycle.  

This puts the user through an extremely frustrating situation where they have to set "Local Off" again on Power On. 

A parallel trend is currently condemning the otherwise popular Boss/Roland Effects Pedals, because they power up in an "On State" requiring the user to turn them off.

Its plain to see that the simple "toe-tap" action of turning them "off" still takes a few milliseconds of the user's time. 

If you multiply those milliseconds over tens of thousands of sold pedals,  it amounts to over an hour of accumulated wasted time. 

I kind of see why this is totally unacceptable,  and why manufacturers really need to make more of an effort. 

Nobody really cares about how products sound any more (it is irrelevant to some degree),  but what really matters is that they work exactly how the discerning and loyal users expect. 

I note that, forward thinking Synth Manufacturers "ASM" (Hydrasynth) actually realised this was a massive industry "blocker" and fixed it in a Software Release.   Now you can specifically "save" the state,  and if you are too much of an idiot to remember or too lazy to switch on/off,  there is a big status read out on the Display that will tell you whether you are in "LOCAL ON"  or "LOCAL OFF"  mode. 

Come on Yamaha....  you really need to listen to this guy "Toby"...  he knows what Yamaha Users want and how to fix it. 

 

 
Posted : 21/09/2024 12:22 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

Para-phrasing Black Adder:-

 

Issue :- "It rains so hard it makes your head bleed"

Solution :- "Wear a Hat".

 

An alledgedly big issue across the Synth Industry,  not just with Yamaha,  is that when setting Global "Local Off",  this status is not "saved" through a Power Cycle.  

This puts the user through an extremely frustrating situation where they have to set "Local Off" again on Power On. 

A parallel trend is currently condemning the otherwise popular Boss/Roland Effects Pedals, because they power up in an "On State" requiring the user to turn them off.

Its plain to see that the simple "toe-tap" action of turning them "off" still takes a few milliseconds of the user's time. 

If you multiply those milliseconds over tens of thousands of sold pedals,  it amounts to over an hour of accumulated wasted time. 

I kind of see why this is totally unacceptable,  and why manufacturers really need to make more of an effort. 

Nobody really cares about how products sound any more (it is irrelevant to some degree),  but what really matters is that they work exactly how the discerning and loyal users expect. 

I note that, forward thinking Synth Manufacturers "ASM" (Hydrasynth) actually realised this was a massive industry "blocker" and fixed it in a Software Release.   Now you can specifically "save" the state,  and if you are too much of an idiot to remember or too lazy to switch on/off,  there is a big status read out on the Display that will tell you whether you are in "LOCAL ON"  or "LOCAL OFF"  mode. 

Come on Yamaha....  you really need to listen to this guy "Toby"...  he knows what Yamaha Users want and how to fix it. 

 

 
Posted : 21/09/2024 12:25 pm
Joel
 Joel
Posts: 603
Prominent Member
 

Hi, i always work with local control Off because i use Camelot Pro and my setting stay in place when i restart, i do not done Exit, in general way i press Perfrmance to come back to perfomance playing or editing, i do not use Exit in my case.

 
Posted : 23/09/2024 4:26 pm
 Toby
Posts: 475
Honorable Member
Topic starter
 

Bump it for reference by Mitchell's new thread.

 
Posted : 11/02/2025 5:57 am
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