Posted by: Jason

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Not on the ignore list.   I don't have anyone on an ignore list.

 

Earlier I was referring to your already fairly complete answer in saying the specifics were already answered.  At least my understanding at the time.  In the other thread I was complementing you for reviewing past generation docs.  Thanks for your contributions.

Mis-comm

I am on Toby's ignore list.

Sorry for the confusion. 

I was asking if you'd cut&paste examples of my text, just to make him aware.

But I see you've gone the extra mile. Thanks for that. 

At least if this diagram is true.

Also, the diagram is simplified.  I intentionally don't show var to rev, MFX modulation source options, panning, etc.

Ok - let's consider your diagram and the one on p.216 of the ops doc.

Disclaimer #1 - I'm not concerned with whether either diagram is right or wrong - I'm simply using them as background for the questions/issues that I am trying to understand.

Disclaimer #2 - I'm not asking anyone to do any testing or provide a definitive answer. I am trying to get others to comment on how THEY think it works especially if their concept is different than what my testing and commentary indicate.

This is one of the questions I first ask:

3A. If the 'Var' switch is ON but the 'Rev' switch is OFF is there still a 'Var Return' of 64 to the MFX? 

My understanding is YES based on my tests and the doc graphic but it isn't clear just what that value of 64 represents but it seems that the 'Var Return' value actually scales the 'Var Send' value (or the output of the effect):

1. 'Var Send' of a part signal is the input to the 'Var Switch'. If that switch is OFF there is NO further signal path. If the switch is ON then there will be a 'Var Return' of 64.

2. Even if the 'Effect Type=No Effect' there will be a 'Var Return' of 64. But that return will, essentially, be the identical input signal. In that instance the only change to the signal will be based on the value of 64 - so it will return ONE HALF of the input signal.

3. The result of #2 is that the 'Var Return' value effectively SCALES the signal level based on the input 'Var Send' value. If the input value is 10 then a return value of 127 is only going to provide an actual value of 10.

What the above seems to imply is the the mixer will receive a 100% dry signal from the part and receive an additional 50% dry signal from a 'No Effect' setting for the Var effect (assuming the Var send is 127 and Var Return is 64).

Which means you can effectively double the signal level, without distortion, by:

A. Var Send = 127

B. Var Effect = No Effect

C. Var Return = 127

Your Diagram  has a label 'VAR=ON and VAR effect NOT set to "None"'. I read that as saying that if the effect type is 'No Effect' then there will NOT be a var return of 64 to the MFX so the answer to my question above would be NO.

I don't know which it is. My tests seem to show that there will be a return with a subsequent boost in the signal to the MFX but your diagram seems to indicate that isn't the case.

 I intentionally don't show var to rev,

Yes - and I'm not at all questioning that - I appreciate the time you took to respond and provide the diagram.

BUT - an obvious modification to the question at the top of this reply is:

If both the 'Var' and 'Rev' switches are ON but the Var Effect type is 'No Effect' is there still a 'Var To Rev' value of 59 sent to the 'Rev' effect? My testing indicates there is and that it effectively boost the raw, unmodified signal level and can double it as discussed above.

So all I was really asking is - do I understand the flow correctly? And, if not, where did I go wrong.

Sometimes a question is really just that - a question. Not a criticism, not a statement about right or wrong, not a 'please test this for me'. And sometimes the expected answer is just a: Yes that is how I see it, No I don't see it that way or Gee - I really don't know.

Moving the goal posts. The latest postulation differs from the earlier postulations. I know because I picked through them and replied.

It seems fairly plain you don't understand how it works or you wouldn't be posting on the subject. 

If Var or Rev is set to "No Effect" then it is assumed you would set the respective Return Levels to Zero.  

If you intend on using Var and Rev as a "life hack" for some extra signal boost, my guess is that this would be "Not Supported".

Typically this would be the response for not using a features for its designed purpose. 

However, that doesn't mean you can't do it. It just means you're on your own if it doesn't work. 

There are multiple "approved" methods for boosting or attenuating a signal within the audio path. 

No Effect is the same, as far as I can tell, as turning off the associated rev or var FX.   I didn't detect any boost to the signal on my instrument -- I did listen for that as a theory that the signal would be put "thru" and added back.  The theory didn't hold up.  That matches the diagram I supplied because this case was specifically tested (turning on each effect and selecting no effect as the effect type).   What I hear is that if either system effect is off or assigned to none then sends and receives in the associated system effect chain doesn't make a difference no matter how high or low they are which is why I show the output goes into the garbage can.

... and I'm just explaining I've left off things for any other casual readers.  The diagram was tailored to the questions I read and filtered out extraneous things that could get confusing.

If you've somehow ignored Antony - then there's lots of direct answers that have been given by him and maybe this conversation seems strange to you at times.   Frankly, I don't even know how to ignore anyone by policy.  Maybe there's a way.