On Montage if you set MIDI mode to USB then this usually means you are connecting to a MAC or PC with a DAW at the other end. With a DAW, you have the option of addressing different MIDI targets according to installed drivers.

Montage's driver has 3 ports. Port 1 you must be familiar with, it addresses MIDI messages sent by Montage's local events. Port 2 is not used and is currently reserved. If it was used, it would be used for DAW transport control type stuff. Port 3 will address the devices connected to the 5-pin MIDI connector. By adding both Port 1 and Port 3 to your DAW - you can address each individually.

If you do not have Montage connected to a computer - then there would be (essentially) no reason to use MIDI mode as USB.

The computer allows for relaying MIDI messages from one port to another - so you would have no loss of options by using the computer and the many configuration opportunities using it.

Hello Roberto - you have a problem if, like me, you don't use a DAW but do use 'Connect', for which you must be in USB mode and all MIDI connectivity is lost. I've never worked out why it should be like that - both could work quite happily, but can only suppose that the Mighty DAW took precedence over mere mortals ...

Jason wrote:

The computer allows for relaying MIDI messages from one port to another - so you would have no loss of options by using the computer and the many configuration opportunities using it.

I loss the possibility to play the montage with an old MIDI keyboard during a gig with the montage connected to a PC

The Montage, like the MX, MOXF, Motif XS/XF, S-series, has a built-in MIDI interface. When connected to a computer via USB, the 5-pin MIDI jack is available for use for one external device. So both ports are active. You use Port 1 for the Montage, Port 3 for your external device.

So you should be able to play your Montage from your external "old MIDI keyboard during a gig" while your Montage is connected to the PC! Please see page 49-50 of your Owner's Manual.

Bad Mister wrote:

The Montage, like the MX, MOXF, Motif XS/XF, S-series, has a built-in MIDI interface. When connected to a computer via USB, the 5-pin MIDI jack is available for use for one external device. So both ports are active. You use Port 1 for the Montage, Port 3 for your external device.

So you should be able to play your Montage from your external "old MIDI keyboard during a gig" while your Montage is connected to the PC!

so I can connect a midi DIN 5 pin cable to the mini in port and play the montage ? because i have tryed to connect the midi out and dont'work

You need to complete the routing in the computer. I'm sorry, when I say the Montage is an audio/MIDI interface - I should explain. An audio/MIDI interface's job is take incoming signal from a device and route it TO and back FROM the computer. The Montage moves 38 audio channels and two Ports of 16 MIDI channels each, to and from the computer. One of those two MIDI Ports addresses the Montage, the other addresses whatever you connect the 5-pin MIDI In/Out to.

Plug the MIDI OUT of your keyboard controller to the MIDI IN of Montage with a standard 5-pin MIDI cable; your key presses on that keyboard are then sent through the Montage's USB connection TO the computer. In the computer you will re-route the MIDI signal back to the Montage on USB Port 1.

The Montage is communicating its own data on Port 1.
It delivers your external device as Port 3.

Your computer will "see" your external keyboard as "Port 3". Signal coming In on Port 3 is from that external keyboard, anything going Out on Port 3 will play that keyboard.

So anything you re-route from the computer on Port 3 will arrive at your external keyboard
Anything you re-route on Port 1 will arrive at your Montage.

So setup a MIDI Track in computer to receive Port 3 (your external keyboard) and to send Out on Port 1 (your Montage).

Turn LOCAL CONTROL = OFF in both keyboards, so the computer is responsible for all routing.

We think this is much more flexible.
1) you can use either set of keys as your input device
2) you can use either set of keys to trigger whatever you want
3) you can use both keyboards simultaneously

So both the USB and 5-pin jacks are active at the same time, in a very useful way. You can decide to use it as you require, but also you can use it as a second control/tone engine in your system!

I'm not sure the MIDI signal path picture shows exactly what goes on with the MIDI-DIN vs MIDI-USB flow. The picture just shows "MIDI IN" when using USB. Not having the keyboard setup still, I can't test - but there are basically two ways it could work.

1) When USB MIDI mode is selected, the MIDI-DIN MIDI input flows through Montage - Montage is able to respond to these events (playing notes on the DIN-connected MIDI keyboard will make sounds on Montage directly if the MIDI notes are within the trigger range velocity+note range of the PART(s)). The signal also goes "through" Montage and the MIDI-DIN connected MIDI messages are passed along to the DAW through Montage Port-3.

or

2) When USB MIDI mode, MIDI messages from the MIDI-DIN connected controller/keyboard will not target Montage's tone generator and will instead only flow "through" Montage to Monage Port-3 where the DAW will have to do something with these MIDI messages.

From your description, it sounds like the answer is #2 unless there's something else you have set incorrectly. I'll assume the answer is #2:

If this is the case, you could have your DAW relay the MIDI messages back to Montage - from the Input of Montage-3 to the output of Montage-1 (from the DAW's perspective) which would take whatever your MIDI-DIN connected keyboard is sending and "echo" it back to Montage.

It's why I previously said when using USB MIDI - you have a computer in the middle - which gives you lots of power to route signals.

Rod wrote:

Hello Roberto - you have a problem if, like me, you don't use a DAW but do use 'Connect', for which you must be in USB mode and all MIDI connectivity is lost. I've never worked out why it should be like that - both could work quite happily, but can only suppose that the Mighty DAW took precedence over mere mortals ...

Perhaps Montage Connect should be updated to offer MIDI routing capabilities as this seems like a pretty appalling oversight by Yamaha.

Appalling!

it's Yamaha's fault if we write this post ....with other keyboards I never dreamed of asking a triviality like that ....

That maybe. But the built in MIDI and Audio Interface is useful for many users. And since it includes your use case as well- it's a feature, not an issue. Try setting it up, once you get it to work, use it.

Bad Mister wrote:

That maybe. But the built in MIDI and Audio Interface is useful for many users. And since it includes your use case as well- it's a feature, not an issue. Try setting it up, once you get it to work, use it.

ok, I setup my daw (nuendo) as in the pics attached, now i'm playing for test my motif es rack via old midi cable (only for test, the motif es have USB midi so the trick is not necessary).

I'm also playing part from 9 to 16 of the montage with montage keyboard, so this is a good case studies for me..

I assume that for playing montage via midi I must invert the settings : midi in (in the daw) MONTAGE-3 midi out MONTAGE-1

I apologize for my insistence but I have other keyboard that work like midi interface and the internal routing in the daw it's not needed..USB midi and standard DIN midi work in parallel...

another question, why I dont' find info in MONTAGE-2 midi port ??

thank you

rooby

I assume that for playing montage via midi I must invert the settings : midi in (in the daw) MONTAGE-3 midi out MONTAGE-1

Correct, although there is not much coming out of the Rack ES. But if it were a keyboard where you wanted to use it as a controller... that's correct.
You can create multiple Tracks and highlight them both. Highlighting a track in Nuendo makes it active to re-route your data.

another question, why I dont' find info in MONTAGE-2 midi port ?

Nothing has been implemented yet for Port 2. Port 2 in the MO-series, Motif-series, MX-series, and S-series synths has been used for Remote Control of external DAWs. Currently, it has no function for Montage.

Hello BM, sorry to be difficult, but yes, it IS appalling that I can't use USB AND MIDI without a wretched DAW in the middle ... there really are people around who have absolutely no use for DAWs ...