The MSB/LSB combination you are using to update PARTs is called "Performance (Single Part)". By definition, this MSB/LSB combination (anything with an MSB of 0x3F) will only load a single PART. If the Performance Number (in preset or user or library bank) is a multi-PART instrument then only the 1st PART will be used and placed in the part corresponding with the MIDI channel associated with the MSB/LSB/PC.

B0 00 3F ; transmitting on MIDI channel 1, sets MSB to 3F (decimal 63) which is "Performance (Single Part)"
B0 20 00 ; transmitting on MIDI channel 1, sets LSB to 0 - which selects factory preset "page" (or "bank" ) 1. The 1st set of 128 Performances for factory presets.
C0 1A ; transmitting on MIDI channel 1, sets PC to 1A (decimal 26). Performances in the data list start at number 1 and PC starts at 0 - so add 1. This will select performance #27 which is "Acoustic Piano DA"

The sum of these 3 commands will place the 1st PART of "Acoustic Piano DA" into PART #1 (since the MIDI channel used was MIDI channel 1). Determined by the lower nibble of B0 and C0 (the first byte in the MIDI message). The lower nibble is 0 representing MIDI Channel 1 (just add one since MIDI channels start with 1 while the lower nibble starts at 0).

Much of this you know - but just providing the complete picture.

There's not a way, using MSB/LSB/PC, to tell Montage to take a PART that's not PART 1 and place it into a single PART in your Performance. And there's not a way to tell Montage to take a group of PARTs and place them inside your Performance without disturbing all of the other PARTs already there.

You either, using MSB/LSB/PC, take a single PART (PART 1 of a Performance) and place it into any of the PARTs in your Performance (without disturbing the other PARTs) - or you use an MSB of 0x40 (64 decimal) in order to change the entire Performance (aka Performance (Multi Part) ).

Doing single-PART replacement using MSB=0x3F/LSB/PC, you should ensure the Performance you are sourcing from is either a single-PART Performance OR has a complete PART 1 that stands on its own and makes sense for what you're trying to accomplish. You can handle one multi-PART Performance combined with many single-PART Performances by first doing the MSB=0x40/LSB/PC (change the entire Performance - to a multi-PART Performance) then use MSB=0x3F/LSB/PC to place single-PART Performances into the remaining PART slots.

If you really want to recall many Multi-Part instruments into your current Performance then that's a lot of work. Through MIDI you'd need to bulk dump each source PART's parameters into a destination PART. This is more work than you've expressed you want to do.

So either assemble your PARTs how you want and save a Performance with the PARTs already like you want them (which I think you've said you don't want to do), or use MSB/LSB/PC to recall an entire Performance (Multi-PART) first then layer single-PARTs on top, or just stick to single PARTs, or use bulk (parameter) dumps to handle more sets of multi-PART instruments.

Glad you returned with a clearer question. We now have a better idea of what you are trying to do...

...is the Montage not intended to use the "blue" performance sounds in Multi/GM mode?

Below we’ll take you through the Search function (there are 3 Searches for programs). Some searches can be used to select “All“ Parts, (Source), some searches are used to select just one Part. Knowing how these 3 searches work and their specific purpose is the starting point.
_ To copy a “blue“ selection into a “Multi/GM” would need to be done one Part at a time.

Here’s what I think you are missing...

When you use [CATEGORY SEARCH] to search for Performances, first thing to know is there are 3 different Searches for sound programs.
1) If you press [CATEGORY SEARCH] while on HOME screen (cursor highlight in a Common area) you will initiate a search for “Performance Category Search”. This will replace all 16 potential Parts of the Performance with the selection you make. The entire Performance changes.

2) If you tap a “+” Add icon on the Performance HOME screen, you are going to launch a ‘search’ that will be called ”Performance Merge”. This will allow you to ADD the selection to the existing Parts. You can “merge” All or any one of the Parts shown in blue... using the “Source” option. One Performance, or segment of it, is added to the existing selection.

3) if you *select* an individual Part (highlight on one particular Part), then press [CATEGORY SEARCH], you will launch a third type of search, which will allow you replace the selected Part with your current Search selection. This one is called “Part x Category Search”, where ‘x’ is a number 1-16. One segment replaces another.

When you engage a Search... the type of Search you selected will be shown in the upper left corner of the screen. (Very Important)

In all cases, as you correctly state, a blue listing consists of multiple Parts programs, while green listings are single Part Performances.
Be sure to introduce yourself to the “Bank/Favorites”, “Attributes”, “Source”, and Data line for typed entries

Now, let’s talk about the consequences of each Search Type, and more specifically, when you are likely to use each. They are NOT interchangeable, and an understanding of these three options is important to move ahead.

_A Performance, by definition, is as few as one and as many as sixteen Parts.

_A Multi Part (blue) selection, is made up of as many as eight Parts that the performer can control via the keyboard, simultaneously. These Multi Part Performances can have any of the first eight Part slots linked by the KBD CTRL icon. This allows you to address these KBD CTRL linked Parts simultaneously. Multi Part programs allow the programmers to use as many Oscillators as they require to build the sound...up to 64 max (not including drums), AWM2 and FM-X Oscillators are grouped in sets of eight per Part). So a Multi Part program could be one instrument or several instruments. All 8 Parts could build one instrument sound with greater detail or it could be eight instruments one per slot... split/layered across the keys, some with an Arpeggiator, some played directly or in-waiting. (A blue listing could be a partial instrument).

_A Single Part (green) selection, is made from a single Part. Typically, this Single Part will occupy Part slot 1, and functions as a complete playable instrument by itself. (A green listing will always play across all keys and at all velocities).

There are 2739 Performances in the Factory set. Only one of them occupies all 16 slots with a program... and that would be the Initialized “Multi/GM” Performance. Thinking about it, naturally Yamaha is not going to provide you with any 16 Part programs... they are you you to assemble.

The template is called “Multi/GM” to give the user the concept of when this would be used. In traditional MIDI sequencing (GM-Style), you start with a “Concert Grand Piano“ in each of the 16 Parts, except Part (Channel) 10, which defaults to the GM mapped Drum Kit. This is how you have been sequencing for years (since 1983) and is the traditional MIDI setup for Sequencing (either with an internal or external MIDI recorder).

Consequences of Starting with “Multi/GM”
If you start with the “Multi/GM” template... please recognize that only one of the three “Searches“ will be available to you. That would be the third one described above: “Part x Category Search” ... because it is the only search that allows you to replace the currently *selected* Part with the newly selected Part. The template purposefully occupies all 16 Parts with the familiar GM RESET. You simply replace the default ‘placeholders’ with your selections.

If you start with “Multi/GM” you will never see “Performance Merge” - it only appears when you are adding to an existing Performance. It only appears after you have tapped a “+” icon on a blank slot.
You will not see “Performance Category Search” because that would be selecting a different starting point.

Consequences of Starting with any other Performance
If you start with an existing program... it will have one to eight Parts... you can use the “Performance Merge” Search to build your own Performance... because there are “+” slots available. This allows you to start with a Multi Part Performance, and then ADD (Merge) other programs into a new Performance. (Please note: you can merge “All” Parts or select just one of them as the “Source” for the selection)

The KBD CTRL icon that links Parts does so so that you can control them together in real time. Only Parts 1-8 can be linked by this function.

Yamaha uses both MSB and LSB to select Banks and the standard 128 Program Change numbers per Bank.

All MONTAGE Performances that can be found via the first type of Search (that is, by the “Performance Category Search” function) will have an MSB/LSB/PC that starts with MSB 064, LSB xxx, PC 1-128.
You can find this Bank Select and Program Change Number, as follows:
Recall the Performance
Tap the Performance Name title box to see the pop-in menu
Tap “Property”

Recognize that a Performance that is identified with MSB 064, will recall an entirely new Performance... replacing all 16 Parts with a completely new set of 16 Parts (full or empty) - an entirely new Performance is recalled.

If you require to send a Program Change on a specific MIDI Channel to change just that individual (single) Part, you would send a Bank Select and Program Change specifically to address that one Part (without changing any other). This would be considered replacing the current Part with a new Part... these replace on a specific MIDI Channel. The MSB/LSB/PC will start with MSB 063, LSB xxx, PC 1-128

If you perform live onstage, and because the MONTAGE can hold 5760 user created Performances between the User Bank and the 8 Libraries, you can quickly create a Live Set (like a Set List) by holding the [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET] button. This allows you to quickly create a list that you can advance through with a Foot Switch. The current Performance will be moved to the Live Set grid where you can place it.
This way your Set List will always be the same MSB/LSB/PC that you can simply advance through.

The currently active LIVE SET will always use MSB/LSB/PC that start with MSB 062, LSB xxx, PC 1-16 (the Live Set grid show 16 program slots per Page, each USER BANK is 16 Pages of 16 Slots, or 256 slots per list. There are 8 User Live Set Banks of 256.

EXTRA CREDIT: Recalling your initial Performance.
When General Midi was introduced (in the early days of MIDI) the industry was looking for way to create a standard program change protocol so that low cost instruments could be made and properly play music files. A strict set of rules for number of layers, and other rules that allowed for standard editing functions were fashioned. Because the type of memory that memorizes parameter settings is VERY expensive, GM uses a set of Control Change and Parameter Change messages to do all the editing. All sound edits are contained in a setup bar that selects and reprograms each Part with data inserted in the MIDI Track. This allowed very inexpensive tone engines to be made... the burden and expense of onboard memory was lifted. Heck, they can put a GM sound set on the head of pin, nowadays. The author of the file would use the CC and Sysex messages to *edit* the sounds.

(It does not mean GM has to be cheap or sound thin, that’s up to the manufacturer, but it did allow inexpensive tone engines to exist. The Genos is GM compatible and no one would call that cheap or thin sounding (or inexpensive, haha). But the fact that the requirement of having storable RAM was lifted, allowed a wide range of GM compatible synth engines to exist). I only mention this to fill in the background.

Rather than placing a Program Change in each Track to recall all 16 sounds with an individual MSB/LSB/PC on each and every track, you can simply send one MSB/LSB/PC to recall the entire 16 Part programmed Performance.

Once you have created your Performance, you have several (21st Century) options:
__ STORE your Performance to the User Bank of MONTAGE. This will give it a specific MSB/LSB/PC that can be used to recall all initial instruments. This would eliminate having to send 16 sets of Bank Select and Program Changes. One set would do the same thing with 1/16 the work!
__ Use MONTAGE CONNECT to capture your initial setup of instruments including all settings of the MONTAGE mixer and synth engine. This works by requesting and then capturing a Bulk Dump of the current Performance settings. This MONTAGE CONNECT data can be merged with your DAW file so that when you open the project, MONTAGE CONNECT automatically restores every setting in your MONTAGE for this composition.

If you are discovering that sending 16 Bank Selects and Program Changes simultaneously to the MONTAGE is not working properly, I would not doubt you. Even in GM one of those rules is to leave 250-350ms between the Reset command and Program Change information... and 5ms between commands. This is why proper GM preparation requires the author to use the “Setup Bar” — one measure in front of the music data to do all of the selection and initial edits. This is NOT anticipated on the MONTAGE because it is assumed you will use the one MSB/LSB/PC command to recall all 16 Parts, 34 Insertion Effects, etc., etc., etc And while I’m sure there is a recommended time factor between this message and start of music data, it is not in the documentation.

It is not in the documentation probably because they anticipate that you will recall the MONTAGE initial settings at the same time you open the DAW project (my guess). Outlined below...

If you run MONTAGE CONNECT as a VST3 plugin with Auto Sync = On, then the simple act of opening the File will restore your MONTAGE. (the Performance does not even have to be STORED in the internal memory of your MONTAGE) ... it will remain as apart of the sequence data in your DAW. Everything in one place.

Hope that explains some of the options and gives a bit of background on way this works.

Workflow
_ You can still work in the traditional method. 16 Parts, 16 Tracks, 16 MIDI Channels. If this is your workflow, we recommend you activate the KBD CTRL LOCK = ON. This will allow you to address one Part at a time. From the HOME screen, touch “FX” on the very top line. Set the KBD CTRL LOCK = ON.

_ You can select a Multi Part Performance to start, and add individual Parts in support of the Multi Part — for example, say you use the 4-Part “CFX Concert” you can address this from your DAW on a single MIDI channel, while using the other 12 Parts as individual support instruments. The HYBRID MIDI I/O Mode allows you to feature the instrument or instruments you wish to play on a single Channel, and all others individually on their own channel.

_ Advanced users can address several Multi Part instruments within the same sequence.

Hope that helps... I recommend avoiding sending all the Bank Select and Program Changes at once... use the one tool that selects the entire program.
Or setup so that the Performance you’re using is stored in your DAW along with the composition (using MONTAGE CONNECT). This way when you open the DAW File and BEFORE you can hit the Spacebar, the MONTAGE will have every setting you made... no worries. If you need to send individual BANK and PROGRAM CHANGES during the composition, they should not be a problem (within reason).

Let us know.

First of all, *many thanks* to both of you, Jason and Bad Mister, for your very detailed explainations.

A short info about my workflow:
a.) Playing around with the Montage-6, finding out, which parameter influences which part of a sound element… trying to create new sounds, playing around with the great FM engine…
b.) Writing songs (non pofessional, hobby only)

For a.), I intensively use the menus, settings, parameters… of Montage-6 on the device itself.

For b.), I use Cakewalk Sonar 8 Producer Edition. Montage is used as the master keyboard for recording and as an additional sound engine simultaneously playing back the already recorded tracks (additionally with the other synths).

So, I work in the traditional method, as Bad Mister mentioned above.
I’ve set KBD CTRL LOCK = ON.

If you are familiar with the workflow differences of „Live on stage“ and „Writing songs“, please skip the following section.
Otherwise… please let me write some details here:

Being „Live on stage“, usually a lot of your work has already been done at home. For each song you are performing, you have created e.g. a Multi Part Performance, stored it as a user’s Performance and added it to a Live Set page or you use a library. All of this is done „off-stage“ directly on the Montage, using all its features (e.g. category search, adapting each Part, use arp, envelope follower, vocoder, LFOs, effects, scene keys….), so „on stage“ you select the song from the Live Set page and play. After that, you load another Live Set for the next song.
When writing a song, you usually start with a totally „clean“ Multi/GM Performance for all involved external devices. Part 10 is set to a drum set, all parts could be set to e.g. a „Piano“ sound. Usually no effects, arps, LFOs are active.
With this clean setup, you select instruments, which will fit your ideas for the song, directly from within the DAW. You use the e.g. Montage as a master keyboard and record the drums (with Montage, Arp can be used to get an interesting rythm rather than playing the drums on the keyboard note by note).
Next, you will use e.g. a background string to record the chords on the next DAW track (while playing back the drums to be in sync). During these steps, also the arrangement has to be taken into account. So, for some tracks you will use e.g. CC or Sysex to set reverb types and levels, LFO….). Then, continue with the next track.
You will add fills and endings to your drum part. Each track of a device is recorded after the other, so after more or less track recording recording sessions, adapting the arrangement in the DAW, adding effects via CC or SysEx, the song sounds as it is in your mind.
All these settings will be part of the current song in the DAW, they will not be part of a (now) modified Multi/GM. So there is usually no need to save the Multi/GM. For the next song, we start with the „clean“ version again.
If we load the other song in the DAW again, the DAW will ensure (during starting the song), that it sounds as it has done before. So it is mandatory, that all bank selects/PC, volumes, CCs are applied, as they have been done before. And it is mandatory, that each instrument recognizes all the bank/PC selections of all required tracks (=parts), otherwise the song will sound now differently to the previous selections.

Each of the sound devices (Montage-6, Motif-Rack Es, Integra 7, Korg PA50 and FB01 (which will get obsolete due to the famous FM sounds on the Montage) work on separate midi ports (via MOTU Midi express 128), each covering 16 midi channels, of course (except FB01, here only one midi channel is used).

Each midi channel has a track representation in the DAW. So, in sum, I have 65 😮 Midi-tracks (=parts) in the initial DAW setup (ok, not all will be used in a song finally ;-)).

To integrate the Montage-6 into the DAW environment, I had to add several sections to the Sonar’s „Master.ins“ configuration file to define, which bank selection code refers to which performance, the drum key notes and names of each drum set and many more.

To get this setup for the Montage-6, I copied some information from the Montage manual „montage_en_dl_j0.pdf“ (Performance List, Drum Kit Assign List…) to a text file and wrote a tool to convert this information to Sonar’s format.
(BTW: Since not all drum performances are documented, my tool had to read out this information by sending dump request messages and get the required information from the bulk data records, returned by the Montage).

As a result, each track in Sonar offers a list of the available „Presets“ and instruments of
a „Preset“ in combo boxes. I think this feature is available in other DAWs (like Cubase…) too, so nothing new. Please see the red marks in attached image, which show the bank/PC combo boxes of Sonar.

Via these combo boxes, the user can select a „Bank“ and a „Program Change“.
Note: I use the bank select MSB 0x3f (063) to affect only one part.

For the Sonar’s „Master.ins“ configuration file this looks like:
Patch[8064]=Montage-6 Preset 1 (1-128)
Patch[8065]=Montage-6 Preset 2 (129-256)
…
(which means, that „Montage-6 Preset 1“ covers the Performances 1..128, „Preset 2“ 129..256 and so on) and they are selectable via the corresponding patch codes.

When I start recording a track (or playing back tracks), Sonar automatically sends the bank select MSB/LSB and PC. To ensure, that there is enough space for the bank selects/PC, the first notes occur with the 5th quarter note (the first 4 beats are usually empty or I use them to add some CC messages).

This works fine for all sound devices except the Montage.

In Motif-Rack ES, I use the Multi „Default“. The Motif-Rack never had a problem to select the bank/PC.

What I have done now:
1.) My Multi/GM setup in the Montage now uses Single Part instrumens only.
2.) In the DAW, only Single Part performances are used. To see the changes,
I use different Single Part Performances for each Multi/GM part and each Montage-6
track (=part) in the DAW.

Example (I have copied/adapted the original Multi/GM to a user Performance):
Montage Multi/GM part1: Concert Grand Piano
DAW: Midi channel Ch1 (for Montage): 286: FM Lately Bass

Montage Multi/GM part2: FM Fretless Bass 2
DAW: Midi channel Ch2 (for Montage): 469: Poly MW DA

Montage Multi/GM part3: Two Acoustics 1
DAW: Midi channel Ch3 (for Montage): 571: Percussive Dance 2

Now the tests (done with my modified Multi/GM):
- Load Multi/GM
- Mute all Montage channels (=parts) except Ch1 in the DAW, play back the song:
Montage-Part1 is changed correctly from „Concert Grand Piano“ to
„286: FM Lately Bass“
- Load Multi/GM again, additionally unmute Ch2 in the DAW, play back the song:
Montage-Part1 keeps „Concert Grand Piano“ and Part2 is changed correctly
from „FM Fretless Bass 2“ to „Poly MW DA“.
- Load Multi/GM again, additionally unmute Ch3 in the DAW, play back the song:
Montage-Part 1 keeps „Concert Grand Piano“,
Montage-Part 2 keeps „FM Fretless Bass 2“
Montage-Part 3 is changed correctly from „Two Acoustics 1“ to „Percussive Dance 2“.

It seems, that internally in Montage, bank selects are not cached. Instead, only the last one is applied, the others are skipped.
Do you have the possibility to evaluate this with another DAW?

Other tests:
- There is no difference in the behaviour when setting KBD CTRL LOCK to ON or OFF
- I’ve verified bank/PC changes on the other devices: none of them has problems with
bank/PC selects.
- It didn’t help to reduce the number of ticks per quarter note in the DAW (the default is
960, I reduced it to the minimum value of 48).
- When selecting the bank/PC of a Montage-Part manually in the DAW track, the
Montage-Part is changed corretly.
- Sonar contains an event editor, so you can add other data than notes to a DAW track,
elsewhere on the „timeline“ (the four numbers (event time) shown below are in the
format: hour:min:sec:ms).
One „frame“ is 1/25 sec (40ms) (frames are given here, because you can synchronize
midi/audio tracks with video material (PAL, 25 frames/sec)) directly in the DAW.

I’ve added bank/PC codes manually to each correspoding DAW track via the Sonar
event editor:
Ch1: 00:00:00:00 286: FM Lately Bass
Ch2: 00:00:00:10 469: Poly MW DA
Ch3: 00:00:00:20 571: Percussive Dance 2
Result: Playing back the song in the DAW sets all three Montage parts correctly.

- I’ve reduced the time values in the event editor to
Ch1: 00:00:00:00 286: FM Lately Bass
Ch2: 00:00:00:01 469: Poly MW DA
Ch3: 00:00:00:02 571: Percussive Dance 2
Result: Playing back the song in the DAW only sets Ch3 (the last one)

- I’ve again changed the values:
Ch1: 00:00:00:00 286: FM Lately Bass
Ch2: 00:00:00:02 469: Poly MW DA
Ch3: 00:00:00:04 571: Percussive Dance 2
Result: Playing back the song in the DAW sets all three Montage parts correctly, which
shows, that bank/PC change needs more than one frame in Montage  and the
Montage does not recognize bank/PC, when the next bank/PC comes faster than (at
least) 2 frames (2/25 sec = 80ms).

- I’ve enhanced my tool, so now it creates a second patch set for Sonar’s „Master.ins“ configuration file, using the
bank selection MSB 0x40 (64).
So, for a test, I selected „Chilly Dreams“ in Sonar.
Since this performance uses four tracks, I attached this performance to Sonar’s channels 1..4 and recorded these
channels in parallel.
Playing back these tracks later on works as expected 

BUT: all other DAW channels for the Montage must be muted, during recording the tracks as well as during playback.
Otherwise the same happened like using Single Parts:
e.g. I’ve selected my Multi/GM
- Playing back the song, using „Chilly Dreams“ with all Montage channels unmuted, „Multi/GM“ is still used in Montage.
- Muting channels 5..16 and keep the four „Chilly Dreams“ unmuted, works as expected:
Montage switches from „Multi/GM“ to „Chilly Dreams“ 

Once again, this seems to be the bank selection problem.

Setting bank/PC via the Sonar’s event editor would not be a convenient way, because when arranging a song, I can quickly run through the different sounds, because the Sonar’s bank/PC comboxes allow „+“ and „-„ to select the next/prev sound.
By using the event editor, it must be opened, the bank/PC must be changed and event editor must be closed.

@Bad Mister: do you think, that the Yamaha software specialists would accept a user request concerning this problem in for one of the next Montage software releases? Do you have a contact to these persons or should I open a ticket? It would be a great help, if this mandatory feature would work as it does for e.g. the Motif-Rack ES or Integra 7.
Am I the only one with this problem? Does bank/PC switsching work correclty in e.g. Cubase?

[Bad Mister wrote]
> I recommend avoiding sending all the Bank Select and Program Changes at once... use the one tool that selects the entire program
[/Bad Mister wrote]

This is one of the main functions of a DAW like Sonar. It ensures, that all instruments are set correctly, so the song sounds in the same way as on the day before. Bank/PC changes are sent step by step, but it seems they are too fast for the Montage.

As far as I know, MONTAGE CONNECT requieres, that Montage is connected via USB to the PC. This is not possible with my operating system (the Yamaha/Steinberg drivers do not work with my OS).

Since I’ve a lot of songs in the meantime, each song uses different instruments and sounds, of course. So only the Sonar’s project file for a specific song „knows“, how to setup the synths for this song.

Due to your excellent detailed explanation, I understand the problem of my second problem 😉
(using a Multi Part Performance via MSB 0x3f (063) in Multi/GM).

I see two solutions:

1.) Enhancing Sonar’s „Master.ins“ configuartion file to additionally deal with the
MSB 0x40 (064) banks to be able to select a Multi Part Performance directly, rather
than trying to squeeze it into a Multi/GM part. (Done today, works as described above)
2.) Creating a song-specific performance, as you mentioned above.

I hope, my explainations are clear enough. If not, please feel free to expect more details from me. I’d like to apologize in advance, because English is not my native language.

Many thanks
Peter

This is one of the main functions of a DAW like Sonar. It ensures, that all instruments are set correctly, so the song sounds in the same way as on the day before. Bank/PC changes are sent step by step, but it seems they are too fast for the Montage.

Therefore it should be able to avail itself of the one-stop-shopping method, where you send just one MSB/LSB/PC to recall the entire Performance with a single message (instead of 16 messages).

As far as I know, MONTAGE CONNECT requieres, that Montage is connected via USB to the PC. This is not possible with my operating system (the Yamaha/Steinberg drivers do not work with my OS).

? Which OS is that?
XP?

Hi Bad Mister,
thanks for your answer.

where you send just one MSB/LSB/PC to recall the entire Performance with a single message

But this would mean, that I have to change the workflow by preparing a song-specific performance for each song I wite. 🙁
So, there is no chance, that the Montage behaves like other synths? That sounds bad for me. I wonder, that other song writers, using e.g. Cubase or similar do not encounter these problems. Do you know, how they are using the Montage in their DAW workflow?

Which OS is that

Yes 😀 😀 😀
The reason is, that I cannot change the OS, because I have a lot of additional hard and software, which would no longer work with e.g. Win 10 (I use the computer in the environment of my home studio as well as for real time video editing for some external events). So I would have to spend a lot of money for a new PC, new audio/video hardware (if available) and, of course, for the new software. Since Win 10 does a lot more in background than XP, it would be necessary to configure a "high-end" PC to avoid sync problems, when a lot of audio tracks are in the song. Changing the OS could be a big risk for me, so I'm not sure and follow the rule "never touch a running system" :D.
Even switching to Linux would be no option (no drivers for the hardware, available software does not fit my requirements, available DAW software cannot deal with Sonar files, so all elder songs could not be opened...)

Many thanks
Peter

So, there is no chance, that the Montage behaves like other synths? That sounds bad for me. I wonder, that other song writers, using e.g. Cubase or similar do not encounter these problems. Do you know, how they are using the Montage in their DAW workflow?

The MONTAGE will behave like the MONTAGE. If by “like other synths“, you are referring to — can you use the GM-type approach where you’re selecting the individual instruments on a track-by-track basis, I’m fairly certain you can perform ‘somewhat’ in that manner (as outlined above), but the MONTAGE is of a grade of product that has its own “internal storage memory”... which, in your workflow is not being taken advantage of (which is your prerogative, of course).

You are not taking advantage of any of the things that this extensive “internal storage memory“ affords when you simply address recalling Parts on a Track-by-Track basis. (This would be true, to some degree, with any pro synth with internal memory, but particularly so with the MONTAGE).

One of the advantages of units that have internal memory is that you can *store*, not only the instruments you‘ve assigned to each Part, but you can additionally memorize all the mix settings, advanced routings (Side Chain interaction), advanced controller assignments and System and Master Effect processor settings... and so on. All the parameters that are not included in the individual Part.

The GM-method and the methodologies that use scripts, instrument definitions and/or voice lists to recall your assigned programs, on a track-by-track basis, miss out on some of the new concepts being introduced by this synth engine...

This may or may not suit your needs, but since you ask about how others maybe using this and taking advantage of the way MONTAGE is leaning, we’ll point this out. We are NOT trying to tell you how to work, only pointing out these alternate methods and what using them will bring to the table.

The entire upper Common/Audio level of the MONTAGE engine is not addressed by the track-by-track method ‘instrument definition‘ method. This means no changes to anything on this upper level of the architecture are being documented to your DAW... you are inheriting the default Common level settings (which are basically unassigned and are, likely, unchanged composition to composition).

MONTAGE CONNECT is as a VST/AU or standalone utility, that can run integrated as a plugin or along side of your DAW. It is a utility that allows two-way communication between your computer and the current settings in your entire MONTAGE Performance.

We hope that the Motion Control Synthesis Engine allows the composer/performer new and interactive ways to use the tone generator. Breaking away from the one Track, one Channel, one Part paradigm... even if it’s only in how you can apply automation while performing.

Example, a rhythm section of keys (B3 and EPiano), bass, drum and rhythm guitar... you might create a setup where interaction with a single Common Assign Knob could radically change these five Parts. A single Knob could simultaneously change effect sends on the bass, open a filter on the guitar, apply reverb effect to the drums, and apply a real-time morph between the two keyboard sounds.

Any of the Common Assign Knobs can become a macro control for different portions of your Performance.

In GM systems, and methods where you simply address the default “Multi/GM” program, there is the omnipresent default Reverb and Chorus System Effects and no Master Effect is setup. You can get so used to this that you may not realize you can choose what ever System Effects and apply whatever Master Effect you desire for each and composition — these changes, however, get stored in the Performance itself, and are automatically stored and recalled by the MONTAGE CONNECT utility. You do not even have to STORE anything in the synth itself... MONTAGE CONNECT captures and keeps it all.

Customizing Insertion Effects is another thing you miss out on when simply recalling by MSB/LSB/PC. One of the biggest improvements of the MONTAGE/MODX engine is that every time you recall what is called a Performance “Part”, you are actually creating a new, unique version of that program... MONTAGE has that much more memory than the previous models ( and likely your ‘other synths’). This means if you use a particular Part Search selection, say “Vintage’74” E.Piano... every time you use this as a Part of a Performance a new, unique version of it is created. You can customize it. You do not HAVE TO simply refer back to the factory list.

MONTAGE CONNECT will capture every unique version and bundle it with your DAW project, so that when you open the file, your MONTAGE is automatically returned to the exact start condition for this composition.

It takes awhile to abandon methods you have used for years, and clearly using the MONTAGE CONNECT method, is a complete departure from your previous method. And is, in fact, not compatible with your current workflow. If it is not your cup of tea, that’s fine.

Alternate Workflows that don’t involve MONTAGE CONNECT
But let’s say you’re simply unconvinced... there still exists a couple of ways to recall all sixteen instrument Parts at once —
1. using a single Bank Select/Program Change placed in your DAW Track data to recall the Performance as a whole entity.
2. using your DAWs ability to capture your hardware’s settings as sysex

— these do not involve MONTAGE CONNECT, and are more in line with your current methodology.

Method 1
Create your MONTAGE Performance.
Store it to the User Bank
This will give it a unique MSB/LSB/PC which can be addressed by your DAW.
You can place that Bank Select/Program Change on any MIDI CH 1-8
Drawback... you must STORE the Performance in the hardware.

Method 2
It’s been eons since I’ve used Sonar but, as I recall it has a method to capture a system exclusive bulk dump from connected hardware. It then keeps this bulk dump along with the Sonar file and it can be set to send it Out via MIDI to your connected hardware when you next open the file (sort of exactly like MONTAGE CONNECT). The Sonar capability to manage Sysex Banks from connected device would allow you to do exactly what MONTAGE CONNECT is doing — capturing, storing and restoring a Bulk Dump of the current MONTAGE settings and attaching it to the Sonar projects session file.

I don’t pretend to remember the SYSEX BANK setup for Sonar but I’m confident it is still there and available. It will capture and restore all Performance settings (including your 16 Part Selections, their Dual Insertion Effects, the AD In Part and it’s settings and Effects, the System and Master Effects, and importantly all the Common level programming that MONTAGE introduces to the game! Motion Sequences, inter-Part communication (side chaining, morphing, etc., etc.)

GM systems and similar have timing rules (as I mentioned), and because of the GM RESET rule that all instrument selection must follow the Reset by at least 250-350ms, with a recommended spread for sending BankSelect/Program Changes across an entire Setup Measure... I don’t believe for MONTAGE there is a published parameter timing distancing recommendation when recalling 16 Parts (manually) in the fashion you are doing. I don’t doubt there is some kind of MIDI-log-jam if/when you attempt to send 16 Bank Select/Program Change messages in less than a measure. I believe, you can avoid it entirely and still get the benefit of MONTAGE’s new programming features.

Many thanks for your comprehensive answers.

Yes, I know, I would loose a lot of the Montage sound and programming features in Multi/GM with the traditional workflow, so I want to use both alternatively, depending on the arrangement of a song (loading a complete, predefined Multi Part Performance via MSB 0x40 or using Multi/GM and Single Part performances on a per track base via MSB 0x3F).
Both I have evaluated already (for Multi Part performances, I have to set the same Montage Multi Part performance for all involved midi tracks and record them all at once in Sonar). All other midi channels (for the remaining Montage parts) must be muted (or their corresponding track in Sonar must be deleted). This works fine 😀

BTW:
For solving the bank/PC problem, I have some ideas for the future, how to fix.
- as a quick fix I will use manually inserted bank/PC changes directly in each Sonar track for the Montage, each delayed by
eg. 50ms from the previous midi channel. This works fine, but I cannot use Sonar's built in automatic bank/PC change, when the song is
started, of course.
- figuring out, how to write a VST Midi plugin, which could delay the bank/PC changes of each channel automatically by inserting it
as a channel plugin in each of the 16 Montage Midi tracks in Sonar.
- Development a small hardware box, directly inserted in between the Midi-out of the Motu USB/midi interface and the Midi-in
of the Montage. The hadrware would see all midi messages, sent to the Montage and could delay the bank/PC messages via software.
I'll have to check, what to use: Raspberry Pi, Arduino or (hopefully) simply an ATTiny microcontroller.

Many thanks for your answers and your time.
Best Regards
Peter