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Montage and cubase problem, plz help

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Hey,

My question is, when I record a midi track (multichannel) in cubase with the channel settings set to "any" and using the (e.g) Seattle sections performance on the montage, everything works great until I want to add a second midi track and then change performance on the montage to (e.g) CFX concert. Then the recorded "track 1" also changes sound to CFX Concert even though I still want it to play the Seattle sections. What am I doing wrong? This is a huge problem for me at the moment, could someone please help me?

/Jonathan

 
Posted : 08/05/2018 2:22 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Hi Jonathan,
We’d be happy to help you get to where you can make things work for you.

It will help to know which version of Cubase you are using (the options available to you change with the different versions) for example Cubase AI 9 versus Cubase Pro 9, etc.

In the meantime, it will be important to know that when connected to a computer via USB, using the “Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver” you are in communication for both MIDI and audio bi-directionally. The MONTAGE is a 16 Part Multi-timbral synthesizer - meaning it can play a different instrument in each of these 16 Parts. Each Part occupies a different MIDI channel.

The MONTAGE can be setup where you are able to play more than one MIDI channel at a time... you can actually play on up to as many as eight MIDI Channels at a time. These are the super programs with Multi Parts. The green KBD CTRL icon available on the first eight Parts links them under your real time control.

If you wish to use 16 Parts as 16 separate instruments, you certainly can. Start with the Init “Multi/GM”.
If you wish to build your Project using the super sounds where multiple Parts are used to recreate a single playable Performance, you certainly can, as well.

Let’s take “Seattle Sections” as an example... it is created from seven Parts recreating the Seattle Symphony
Part 1 is the first violins
Part 2 is the second violins
Part 3 is the violas
Part 4 is the cellos
Part 5 is the contrabasses
Part 6 is an articulation only brought in by an Assign Switch
Part 7 is the solo violin-viola-cello morphed to via the Super Knob (FC7)

The sections are panned out, left-to-right, as would be the seating of the actually orchestra in front of you.
You are performing on seven MIDI channels using the equivalent of seven Motif XF Voices at once.
You are going to record this and occupy seven of the sixteen available MIDI channels.

The obvious advantage of using this Performance over using the traditional single Part string sound should be clear to your ears immediately... the expression, the dynamics and the playability that you are able to get from this program is what playing MONTAGE is all about. You can feature the string section with this Performance.

Once you have recorded this, you will want to render this track as audio. Audio is a more permanent documentation of your music performance... you can keep the MIDI data in a Cubase folder track and mute it. This way if later you ‘change your mind’, you can always refer back to your original recorded data. But rendering audio is a way in which you can reuse your hardware.

This is where the version of Cubase software you are using comes in. In Cubase Pro, you can render temporary audio tracks via the “Freeze” function. This is similar to how plug-in soft synths work where you record MIDI but can Freeze the MIDI Track by rendering a temporary audio file. This allows you to open another instance of the plugin to create more tracks. This is exactly the concept here, you get to reuse the hardware by rending your super sound to audio.

The MONTAGE features the most powerful audio engine in a synth of its kind... 32 audio buses from the MONTAGE to your computer... meaning every Part can have its own stereo output (awesome when utilizing stereo Insertion Effects), or if you’d like, you can configure the Outputs as odd/even stereo pairs and/or individual mono buses, as you may require. You can Output pristine 24-bit audio at sample rates as high as 192kHz (higher than 44.1kHz you are limited to 4 stereo Outputs).

But the MIDI recording, then rendering of audio (either by Freeze or direct assignment) is the preferred workflow... especially when you are going to use the super powers of MONTAGE Multi Performances. They don’t fit on a single MIDI channel. (When we say that, we are talking about how these sounds can be addressed by your controllers).

You are not limited to just 16 Parts when you include the audio portion of the MONTAGE’s arsenal of weapons. In fact, all limits fall away... and because you keep back ups of the original MIDI performance you have the ultimate level of “undo”.

Even with the entry level Cubase AI you can learn to record - render - record - render as a workflow. The original multi-track recording method predates MIDI by about 30 years... somewhere in the early 1950’s a guitarist named Les Paul, Yes, that Les Paul... invented multi-tracking by disengaging the erase head on his tape recorder. It was audio based.

Again, the role of MIDI (or the only reason to record MIDI) is to give us time to correct mistakes, easily, to do score noataion, and to “change our minds” before committing (to audio). FREEZE is a Cubase function that saves and mutes your MIDI performance and creates temporary audio files so you can reuse you resources to create new data. If you don’t have Cubase Pro you can setup to render the tracks manually.

So all of your selected sounds can be recorded... be they Multi Part.

Let us know, we can get you going in no time.

 
Posted : 08/05/2018 3:25 pm
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Hi Bad Mister and thank you so much for explaining these things to me. At the moment I´m using the entry level cubase AI 9.5 because I didn´t want to upgrade due to the fact that I´m still not familiar with cubase and haven´t gotten any chance to get to know it because of this problem that I have.

So that´s when the montage connect app comes in right? I get to save the performances and recall them in case I would like to change the midi file later on and dont want to start looking for the same effects that I was using earlier?

Does the pro version give me a much better workflow? Now, give me that sales speech 🙂

/Jonathan

 
Posted : 08/05/2018 4:52 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Although there are "slight" enhancements between the various levels of Cubase - you would be best served in sticking with what you have and getting over that learning curve as the higher versions add more bells and whistles but do not characteristically change how Montage differs in approach from what you're accustomed to. Once you've gotten the hang of how Montage and your DAW interact - you'll be better positioned to judge if the enhancements in other skus of the DAW are necessary for you.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 08/05/2018 5:24 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

So that´s when the montage connect app comes in right? I get to save the performances and recall them in case I would like to change the midi file later on and dont want to start looking for the same effects that I was using earlier?

Does the pro version give me a much better workflow? Now, give me that sales speech 🙂

That sounds about right!
Of course, the Pro version is a more elegant deal, you’d expect that. But you can still do what you need to get done with the Cubase AI 9.5 (with the advantage of learning how to setup the render routing manually)

I highly recommend that you use Cubase AI 9.5, first, get a feel for the whole computer-based workflow. Sure, the Pro version does streamline a thing or two or three, but until you know the general workflow it’s impossible to fully appreciate the differences. Later you’ll know if you want to upgrade to Pro (also as an AI User you get a huge discount on Pro... but only when you’re ready. You may find AI does what you need).

The workflow we suggest for working with Cubase AI 9.5 follows... we’ll use the “Seattle Sections”, followed by the “CFX Concert” as you were attempting.
When configuring the MONTAGE to record MIDI, we’ll assume you are doing so to correct errors and generally audition what you’ve played before committing it to audio... or perhaps you wish to use the SCORE function to create musical notation. When working with a Multi-Part Single instrument Performance that contains no Arpeggios, you will want to generate a single channel of events. This will make it easier to edit. “Seattle Sections” is such a Multi Part (7), single instrument (orchestral strings) Performance with no Arpeggios.

Press [UTILITY] > touch “Settings” > “Advanced” > Set the “MIDI I/O Mode” = Single; Set the MIDI “Channel” = 1
While in Utility touch “Quick Setup” > Select “Midi Rec on DAW”
This sets Local Control to Off, and makes several other critical MIDI settings preparing for recording Midi to a computer

In Cubase AI 9.5 you would set a single MIDI track to record
This one track will record all your MONTAGE data, note-ons, controller movements, etc.,
You can edit using the MIDI > Key Editor (piano roll style editing)
Super Knob movements will be cc95
Scene changes will be cc92
MIDI IN = Montage-1 (port1)
MIDI OUT = Montage-1 (port1)
Ch = 1

Recording, playing back and editing can all be handled with this configuration.
Once you have the String Performance playing back exactly as you like...
Because you will be using several Multi Part Performances in this single Project, I recommend you use MONTAGE CONNECT’s ability to write data to your computer via the Cubase Media Bay/Sound Browser Function. What is meant here is normally, a single MONTAGE Performance is used for a Project (when limiting yourself to the traditional 16 Part/16 Channels on 16 Tracks), but since you will be using more than one Multi Part Performance, you will want to use the Sound Browser’s ability to hold all your MONTAGE setups so that they will be accessible if ever you need to undo and redo some of the original data.

For each Performance you record, you will click on the Cubase “Sound Cube” icon located at the top center of MONTAGE CONNECT > click “Save Preset...” this will offer to write the current setup to your computer’s drive... I recommend you create a “new folder” so that you can easily find your customized Performances later. If ever you need to restore the original MIDI data you will have the Performance exactly as it was when you recorded it.

Manually, rendering this track to audio is as simple as playing back the MIDI data with an Audio Track set to record.
Here’s the step-by-step setup:

Create a Stereo Audio Track set to receive audio via “Main L&R”

In MONTAGE, go to [UTILITY] > “Settings” > “Quick Setup” > touch “Standalone” (this returns the MONTAGE to normal)
Touch “Audio I/O” turn Off “Direct Monitor” - this way you will only be able to hear the audio we are recording to Cubase. (The only audio Montage is sending is going via usb to the Audio Track)

On the Cubase Audio Track activate the RecReady (red) and Monitor Speaker (tan) icons in order to hear the MONTAGE playback through Cubase.
After checking and adjusting record levels, if necessary, return to the top, reset the Super Knob to start position, and render audio by clicking Record.

Midi data from Cubase will trigger the MONTAGE Tone Engine, the Audio is not sent to the speakers as normal because we turned DIRECT MONITOR = Off, instead Audio is routed to USB Main L&R... where we are recording it to the Audio Track. The Audio Track is set to send audio back to the MONTAGE via USB Main L&R, where we will monitor it.

We should mention you can Bypass the System Effects if you would rather add Reverb later. Many folks opt to wait for final mixdown before committing to a Reverb amount... just FYI. Touch the “FX” icon on the very line of the MONTAGE screen > find Ststem Effect Bypass.

Now that you have an audio rendering of Seattle Sections, you can MUTE the Midi Track, and just listen to the Audio. Your Montage hardware is now free to create entirely new sounds.

Next, setup the “CFX Concert” which is a 4 Part acoustic piano, for MIDI Record.
Bring back the MONTAGE CONNECT utility by clicking on the “e” in the VST INSTRUMENT panel.
Using MONTAGE CONNECT capture your version of the "CFX Concert" by clicking on the Synth > Computer icon
Click on the Cubase “Sound Cube” > click “Save Preset...” ... place this "CFX Concert" in the same folder you placed the strings.

Again, you can use the “Quick Setup” Template for “Midi Rec on DAW” to restore your MIDI settings for record.
Create a MIDI Track set to receive MONTAGE... You can again use MIDI channel 1 (this is the only MONTAGE connected, the strings, remember, will playback as audio).
Repeat... record your piano, Edit it if you need to and when you’re ready to render it ... create a new Audio Track again set to use “Main L&R”

In the MONTAGE select Quick Setup = Standalone, and go to “Audio I/O” and set DIRECT MONITOR = Off. This will ensure that just the MIDI Track’s triggered audio will be recorded to your Audio Track.

Hope that helps get your started. If you need more detail, just let us know.

 
Posted : 08/05/2018 8:09 pm
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Topic starter
 

Thank you so so much Bad Mister, you´re the man! This helps me to start practicing my hobby on a more advanced level. I will let you know if I have more questions regarding this subject. Until then, have a good one!

Best Regards,

Jonathan

 
Posted : 10/05/2018 5:31 pm
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