[quotePost id=122631](This may be a Yamaha forum but here I try to sell you the K2700!)[/quotePost]
You should do that somewhere else.

[quotePost id=122631]Jonathan, re your post # 122609:
(This may be a Yamaha forum but here I try to sell you the K2700!)
[/quotePost]
Good luck, not me! :p

I watched your videos and I've watched several others recently that compare the K2700 to the Montage, Nautilus and Fantom.
The K2700 pianos are not super great, and they sit somewhere between the Fantom and Nautilus, but no where near the CFX on the Montage!

The strings are actually quite good on the K2700 and could possibly be on par with the Montage. One video I watched that compared against the Montage, the only real difference in overall quality I noticed was that the K2700 sounded slightly fuller because I noticed they had a cello layered in, which gave it depth, whereas the Montage Performance didn't have a cello. If they had they added the cello to the Montage sound it would have been even more close, whereby the Montage likely would have come out on top overall..!?

I will say this. They were smart to have 9 sliders on the K2700 for those who use organs a lot; however organs are more of a secondary sound for me that I don't use very often and don't care to use the bars/sliders ever...

I would never trade in my Montage for the K2700. The Montage is far too awesome in sound quality and functionality! 😉

Let me know which Kurzweil forum I should hit up, where I can share some links to comparisons between the Kurzweil & the Montage that will have Kurzweil owners second guessing their piano sounds and possibly even their strings (I'll find one that has the cello in the Performance as well)...!? :p

I think the keyboardist for Weird Al Yankovic has an (old) article describing why he uses a Kurzweil as a master controller.

I believe that is Ruben Valiterra and I saw a good (although long) interview with him ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP50f4jpJdI&pp). In the middle of that, he describes his time using the Kurzweil, and its use in the show.

I think my opinion of the K2700 is gravitating towards -- it's really good if you need great sounds in a live setting. I also am getting the vibe that it's great if you're performing in a Broadway musical or some kind of Rock opera. It's a time-proven, well balanced set of sounds. I also really like that it can give you the classic Star Trek: TNG style pads. It's definitely a fun looking instrument.

As far as keybeds go, I own a Kawai ES920 which has been the best 88-key action I've owned -- so I think I'm covered there if I really want that feel. I'm leaning towards the 76 or 61 key options. I do like that it can take less space, and I'd like to see it in front of my computer, or on a stack under the Moog Voyager XL I have.

Montage will be just great for being a well-rounded set of sounds that go well together. I saw some videos where Yamaha was demonstrating their Seattle Orchestra sounds -- which I think sound as good as any of the Kurzweil videos I saw. If they add a virtual analog to their next synth, and that doesn't break it's polyphony, then I think it'll be pretty awesome. I think the K2700 can be put in a scenario where you're really limited on polyphony when you're using a DX7 part.

One of my requirements I believe is to have it serve as a good 16-channel or 32-channel playback device. I want it to fit in a workflow where I can compose multi-part pieces. I think plugins are slightly little brittle for that, even if they provide the best sounds. If you upgrade your computer, it's a chore to bring up an old project. A synth that lasts for a long time (and as long as you don't clobber the preset memories) can be really good in preserving the composition. I want to use plugins for outputting stems, but I want the compositions to sound good playing back on a hardware unit.

Yamaha Montage is probably my favorite so far, if I could have just one. And in this case, I'm actually only looking for one.

Jonathan, coming from Motif XF / MOXF (which is effectively included in Montage), and having at times quite extensively considering to upgrade to Montage, the following could be interesting for you, especially given that you plan to use Montage as a playback device, potentially controlled from another synth:

Some of the best new sounds in Montage (vs. previous Motif), such as CFX and Seattle Strings, are Multi Part sounds. That means they do not use just one Midi channel, but up to 8. If you dig into that you'll find plenty of information in the internet, especially there were lots of discussions on Montages inability to let you assign the Midi Receive channel freely (which is, I think, closely linked to the existence of those instruments).

It's not a dealbraker I guess, and it remains to be seen if something about it will be changed in the upcoming next gen Montage, but if you do "traditional" Multi Trimbral sequencing (one Midi channel, one instrument) I would imaginge it can be a bit annyoing / unusual at times. I remember Yamaha suggested as solution to this to render Tracks to Audio, or to not use the Multi Channel instruments in such a setup. Also, if you attempt to control Montage from another instrument, I frequently read that people ran in to problems, because you need a controller transmitting at multiple Midi channels.

I'm selling my CP1. That's a very odd instrument ultra specialized for nothing more than piano and EP and nothing more. Might have been more of an experiment with technology but it's fantastic to behold. So retro and elegant what a big mistake not to have made it open ended. It's basically a fantastic paperweight. You can't even use it in church without organ or strings or brass etc. It's got to be the greatest dumbest Yamaha creation for only $6K. Literally it's only application is to play piano the most realistically possible but then most everything plays piano too. The design was beyond stupid I couldn't believe it wasn't expandable. Only 15 voices or so and a real FM engine that does nothing. The most wasteful of all Yamaha creations. I mean if it's $6K add another $1K to make it accept custom samples or custom FM editor. Do something, anything not to waste the unit entirely. I couldn't understand that thinking whatsoever.

Yamaha has a long list of dumb things like FS1r, CP1, EX5 (although fantastic & also dumb lacking enough DSP) I always suggest why not add $200, $500, $1,000 to the unit to make it fantastic? Why stop at half done? The problem is they set a fixed budget and at the moment the budget is exhausted they just stop at whatever point that is. When one step further could be legendary. There's a tipping point between run of the mill and legendary and it's very hard to hit that mark at the same point. Set the original budget and evaluate the progress at the point and then examine "what if" we take this to the next level for a fraction more? Apparently they can't achieve that. It's a business and often not interested in legendary but that could double/triple the sales. They got lucky with the DX7 selling 4 times more than expected. They do not get lucky very often.

IF the CS80 was the best ever made and most expensive, why not use modern tech to make an affordable version like the Deckard's or Black Corp had to do because Yamaha wouldn't? I don't know what they are thinking sometimes but all they have had going is AMW2 & FM recycled a million times over in a new package. Will the M2 be that same thing again?

Not every keyboard suits every player. CP1 maybe doesn't make sense for you, but plenty are happy with what it does.

I checked it out when released and it didn't speak to me. I kept trying to hear the modeled stuff and was looking for a big difference but could not hear it. I'm not a pianist with fierce and delicate chops so I couldn't take advantage of what it offered and took a pass.

Pianists seem really happy with it. I think that's a big part of the target demographic so it's a win.

Yamaha does an experiment with almost seemingly all products. Next generations of the "same" product will likely drop lots of good stuff and add a few new things.

I wish more of the good stuff was retained but you also see competitors trying to retain all the legacy then end up with a keyboard with dated sounds and new better stuff lobbed on. Not that it has to be this way - but Yamaha seems to favor a more focused device without carrying history with each.

If you like a board, hang on to it. They're snowflakes.

If you don't like it, then by all means find it a new home.

Not sure you recognize that at some level we agree. I just don't think my utopia is best for everyone or Yamaha. I've got my wishes and drop my penny into the well.

I was reminding myself they are nothing but a company making money. So they are handed a budget and scope of work and they leave at 5pm daily and if the item ends up flopping so be it. Yeah there's not any evolving plan to go one or two more steps beyond mainly because they've already sunk the ship with memory and DSP limitations in the beginning. That window of opportunity is mostly gone long before they reach the end.

The only hope to be legendary begins on day one with a perfect idea or concept and a budget to fully realize and develop it. Luck or hope begins at conception. I suppose they never double the processing power hidden under the hood so that really big options can be included, not necessarily meaning 2 years after release, but near the end of the design and before release. Obviously that didn't work out with Montage because it sounded like they ran out of rope.

Maybe a lesson learned is to never under design at the beginning, just put $300 extra in it so that you aren't scraping the bottom or squeezing it for every last drop. The foundation or platform is essential. Maybe they lacked just a fraction to make the ANx work inside the current Montage. It seems historically they have always been shy on DSP. Nord has proven you can ask double the cost of typical stage boards and people will still pay for the extras. That's what's so frustrating is that a little more would make it legendary. Perhaps with the CK61 and MODX+ relatively super cheap options that this Montage2 will be extremely high end using those sales to bolster this new investment. I will say I don't particularly like having to wait 2 or 3 or 5 years to get the full package. That's also very annoying. If they can deliver within months that fine but it never takes less than years i.e. YC rotary.