FYI ... Montage classic has center note exposed to editing in firmware v2.0:

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/960092/montage_en_sm_h0.pdf

Just what do you think the 'Center Note' is used for and how? (Always seem to forget to check that Supplementary doc!) 

The docs just say it sets the key of the original waveform. Is it used to select one of multiple waveforms? Is it used in the 'stretch' of a selected waveform?

My take is it aligns samples with MIDI notes.  It's easier to explain with just one sample.  If you sampled a singer who sang "Dooo" and they sang an F# just above middle C then you could tell the keyboard to put the center note on F#2 and the note and octave would match when you kit this F# key.   Stretching is a function if the other keys have samples or not so with this example with one sample the further you are away from F#2, in either direction, the more stretching would be applied.

That is about what we were thinking. We know some of the newer waveforms might have one sample for each 2-4 notes in the hot zone of the keyboard so figured the Center Key would be mostly for single note samples to position them so as to minimize any stretching.

We ask for input for this stuff to try to get the benefit of the way other people can think 'outside the box' we might be in at the moment.

Take the 'Pan' parameter for example. Panning a digital signal is a similar process to 'stretching' a signal in that the farther you pan the greater the risk of introducing noticeable differences.

The waveform 'Pan' setting COULD BE, but might not be, used to select the best waveform that matches the pan for the element. A sample known to be panned far left would be a better match for an element panned far left that a sample panned far right would be.

We think that seems rather extreme but who knows?

Generally speaking there are just too many implementation details that can't be known without complicated testing and we are trying to avoid that to get at the 'low hanging fruit'.

One example is just what 'chord aware' means and how an instrument determines it. For a user it is nearly impossible to trigger three notes of a chord at EXACTLY the same time and, given the physical realities involved, two keys might trigger at ever so small different distances of travel. Testing can't take all of that into account. 

Chord aware is only a function of arppegios and arpeggios have sample times dictated by tunable parameters dictating when the sample happens at sometimes wide intervals and all of the keys that are changing states just need to settle down before the sample occurs.  So if you have the arpeggio set to only change every 5 seconds then you would have the system look at whatever keys are pressed down when the first sample occurs - then you have a 5 second period before the next time it's going to look at the keys - so you have all of that time to fiddle around with keys and hold them down before it "looks" again (samples the key states).  Whatever it collects will be cross referenced to a lookup table of detectable chord types and out it will spit its interpretation of the keys held down that fit some chord type.  So if you hold down the last chord 1 second after the sample occurs then you have 4 seconds to change the notes you're holding down before the next arpeggio transition.  Best to quickly move and have 2-3 seconds to just sit on the new notes until the keys are sampled and then change.  Change early and hold.  In electronics this is called setup time.  Maximize your setup time.  And hold time is how long after the sample you wait.  Minimize this to give yourself maximum setup time.  Your pattern of holding down the keys for the arp will be very much unlike the real-time result that comes out.  And certainly there's times when the arpeggio can transition must faster than every 5 seconds and you may get into more difficult to accomplish situations - but the "before" concept always applies.  If you change your finger pattern to program the arpeggio on the beat you want it to change then you're (usually) doing something wrong.

You can certainly "miss" the sample because you don't hold down the intended keys before the keys are sampled.  But there's always this sense of "before" when it comes to arps.  The keyboard itself is playing the interpretation of chords and you setup the keyboard with instructions before this transition happens.  Instructing arpeggios how to play is very different from yourself playing the actual notes.  Often, if not always, it's about playing before the count where the arpeggio is set to change its notes by sampling key inputs and reacting.

This pan stuff I haven't really been concerned about when it comes to the waveform architecture.  Mostly because I don't do much with custom waveforms so it's not a pursuit.  Everything I do is mono, unfortunately, so it's not a part of the system I tend to exploit.   There have been previous discussions around panning at the Part level - and that's about the extent of pan I've gotten gory-ish details about.

Reading the docs I just think those Pan, Volume, and Tuning (Fine/Coarse) are offsets applied.  Inherently a stereo sample has a certain inherit pan in the stereo field.  Depending on the stereo recording you can make the sample itself exhibit a left or right bias.  Then the pan parameter at the waveform level is an offset applied after the fact.   Same with volume and tuning.   You don't adjust the samples themselves.  At least I don't think the samples are re-sampled and stored into memory with different pan/volume/tuning.  I think they are played by "oscillators" and then adjusted with these as offsets applied.

There just isnt' much detail about waveforms/arps in the older docs either.

It's just curious that the older docs often have a lot more detailed info about how things are put together than the current docs do. But we can't find much of anything regarding the whole AWM2 family of technology. That's why we thought someone that actually owned some of the older gear might be aware of docs, articles or forum threads where some of those internals were discussed.

With the M8X having Poly AT and a keyboard that allows continuous sensing of key travel implementation code can get really complicated when you have to take the physical realities of the individual keys into account. Some of the arrangers, even the older Electones, could do things for a chord differently depending on what the highest note of the chord was that you played.

But the code could also evaluate the order the keys of a chord were played in if you wanted it to. 

And with arps there are clearly some things in the execution code that are based on properties of the arp that normal users can't create but that Yamaha can still put in the arp. Some of the mega arps take advantage of that but mere users can't.

Doesn't seem to be any info floating around about what all of that 'special sauce' might be. Our guess is that the special stuff might be on an additional track that instrument itself can't create. Who knows.

Thanks for the additional info.

Seeing typos in my last reply.  I'll let them go.  Breathe in/out.  

Regarding arp special sauce - it was teased that an editor would be made available nearly 20 years ago but that never came to fruition.  Something that would allow us to tap into the yet unavailable power of arpeggios.   

Source: Yamaha Power User (Working with the Motif Arpeggiator) https://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/KeyboardsDMI/1227.pdf

In the future you may see an Arpeggio Editor which will let you get at more of the ‘hidden’ features of the mysterious art of arpeggiating. Currently the four tracks have limited use.

 

Phil Clendeninn

Digital Product Support Group Pro Audio and Combo Division

©Yamaha Corporation of America