With the exception of DAW remote modes, there is no flexibility or configuration options to the sliders. The sliders have fixed functions.

When the sliders are controlling the element levels - they control the element levels of the currently selected Part. You cannot select more than one Part at a time - and therefore cannot control element levels of different Parts using the sliders.

This lack of flexibility extends to the reversal question. They only increase levels when you slide them towards the back of your keyboard and decrease levels when you slide them towards the front ("down", "towards you" ). This is opposite of drawbars - and there is not a mode or selection to change this.

Note that sliders can control the level of Parts and the output of any (or all) Parts can be sent to an envelope control which outputs a higher number when the Part is "louder" and a lower number when the Part is "softer". So envelopes as control sources in Mod/Control->Control Assign can be used to both invert the relationship of a slider to a parameter and can also take one slider and assign its effect on multiple Parts.

If I needed all 8 sliders to act like this - I might create Parts 9-16 as FM-X parts that drone forever. The issue is how to "kick off" these Parts at the onset. For this task, I would probably use a song (MIDI file) to do this and start these Parts droning by pressing the "play" button after switching to the Performance setup for this purpose. And the sliders would be set to controlling the volumes of Parts (not elements) and set to 9-16 (not 1-8 as is the general default).

For the reversal, this would be a function of the curve shapes selected to translate the envelope sources for Parts 9-16 into level offset outputs. The ratio would be negative and some adjustments would need to be made to compensate for the more limited range of envelopes. I have a difficult time making them range from 0-127 - which would be a more "perfect" range for this kind of application. In order to compensate - I would say the downward ramp would reach the 0 "y" axis before "x" reaches 127. Where this needs to be depends on the maximum level of the envelopes.

Currently I see envelopes as the only feature that gives sliders the ability to be "programmed" by using indirect methods.

--- that's using sliders ---

If you really wanted to use sliders - then the next suggestion is unsatisfactory. Using assignable knobs is a much easier way to accomplish this "sort of" thing. You can have the common assignable knobs 1-8 control element levels of several Parts at once. Since they are not sliders - the reversal isn't as much of a consideration - although that could be done. It wouldn't make as much sense to reverse the polarity of the knobs.

If you're almost there with the sliders - consider using the superknob as your last drawbar. It can, if you want, address two Parts at a time. It may be easier to deal with - you could assign it to a foot controller and hands-free control superknob.

Note that I tried to generate a Performance based on the previous idea of using Parts 9-16 as control sources. There's a problem with this, however. I don't think there's a way to place the sliders into Part 9-16 mode without also selecting one of the Parts 9-16. And selecting any of the Parts 9-16 will no longer send your Montage piano key presses to Parts 1-8 .

I would hope I'm wrong and someone reminds of how to set the sliders to 9-16 without selecting any Part. Today I just haven't been able to do this. Using Parts 9-16 isn't something I do very much of - so the rules are rusty. If you cannot make your sliders control Parts 9-16 while avoiding selecting any Part - then I have a new Ideascale to place.

Otherwise, I did find a good way to get both a (more or less) linear response of envelope to a slider and also range from 0-127 at least on the Part's output. It involved using a Envelope as a selective feedback loop. One that only starts feeding back when the envelope is above a certain level. And itself boosts (offsets) the level.

So, for now, I see using something like "All 9 Bars!" I only get 6 sliders for this (Parts 3-8).

An ugly workaround would be to set Part 9's output MIDI channel (using Zone Transmit) to Ch 1 and loop around a cable while using MIDI I/O mode=MIDI. It's ugly but works at the expense of the Part 2 noises and 1' drawbar.

Another way to get there is to place parts 1-8 as the drawbar control - all of these as FM-X parts that make no sound but create envelope outputs. This is easier since it doesn't need a MIDI file "kickstart". Then place "All 9 Bars!" on Parts 9 and 10. Same loopback MIDI cable. Now Parts 1 and 2 can have Zone MIDI channel output to Parts 9 and 10 - which gives you full control. I tweaked superknob to control the 1' bar. Of course to get all of the element levels in All 9 Bars! Part 1, destinations had to get cleared out since 16 destinations is not enough. So I wiped away ones I felt weren't really needed. There's even an element level with all elements OFF - so it's just a stray destination in the factory data. I also unlinked much of the superknob from common level assignable knobs to avoid unwanted level changing when using superknob as only the 1' level.

Right now I have All 9 Bars! reconfigured to use drawbars in reverse polarity (like Hammond) - pull to make louder - push all the way in to silence. And I could reconfigure this to "gang" any one slider to multiple drawbars.

The MIDI loopback cable and use of MIDI I/O mode=MIDI is necessary - so it's not exactly standard or recommended configuration.

Wow @Jason
thanks for all the in-depth information and possibilities.

I think I will keep it simple for my purposes, as I want to make the Organ versatile so that it can be easily added in a multi-PART Performance with other instruments & sequencing, yet not have to expend too many extra PARTs or functionality.

I can live with the the bars as they are, as I'm not really a Hammond player, and until recently didn't know that the Draws on a Hammond are the reverse of the Montage's sliders, so not a big deal for me. And I can also live with using PART1 Elements 1-8 for the first 8 draws and PART 2 Element 8 for the 9th Draw, then just hitting the 'Home' button to engage PART CONTROL over the Elements for the Sliders to work, and switch between PART1 and PART2 for the Drawbars. Besides, I likely wouldn't use that functionality that much, as I like the way Organimation have set the SuperKnob to increase the volume of the various Drawbar Elements 1-9 as it's turned from left to right. I will likely have different SuperKnob settings and Percussion changes via the the Scene buttons, but I have already re-programmed the Organimation "9 Bars Close AF1" / "Drawbars 'n 'Drive" Performances into a new Organ, whereby I am using AsgnKnob1 to control the distortion (clean is when set to half way), I replaced all the Drawbar waveform elements with Montage Presets, I replaced the bass organ PART with a new FM-X PART that I programmed from scratch, and I used a combination of the "Draw 4' Of" & "Percussion" Preset waveforms to replace the Organimation Percussions (short & long/higher & lower key). I also had to adjust EQ'ing on the PARTs & Elements, because they had programmed the Master EQ with a spike & a major high shelf drop, which didn't make the organs transferrable into other multi-instrument performance for playing live, so now I have the Master EQ set to all +0dB. I also found a better distortion and tweaked things so that the new Organ sounds better than their presets, more versatile, usable within any Performance, and requires zero samples since it uses all Preset waveforms and FM-X PARTs. I even re-created the exact same User Curve types for the Element Level AsignKnobs, as I found out that those don't transfer when doing a 'Library Import' from a Library to the User Area.

I sure wish someone had programmed the Organ Performance I have now, either in a Preset or B's Knees or Organimation Performance, because I can now easily go from Procol Harum's "A Whiter Shade of Pale" to The Spencer Davis Group "Gimme Some Lovin" and everything in-between, with virtually the same exact sounding organs, just by turning AsignKnob1, the SuperKnob and Scene buttons. A Whiter Shade was the hardest to get close to exact, but I figured it out after someone mentioned 68860000 and I realized he is using the lower Percussion (long, not short), etc.
But in the end it was worth it, as I learned a lot and had fun as well 🙂

Yeah - what I mentioned was more of a proof point that something could be done. It just costs you 8 Parts and forces putting tinfoil on your rabbit ears (ugly hack).

But if you really wanted to reverse those sliders - there's a way.

If you really want to make one slider affect parameters in a different Part (or Parts) than the Part assigned to that slider - there's a way. Same for element vs elements - you can gang by using the indirection of envelope followers.

I intentionally didn't give all of the gory details because I figured it would be too much compromise. There's usually a more straight forward way - possibly with compromise on the expectations of controllers (which used, what directions).

Another thing to mention I didn't before - when you see the [PART CONTROL] button flashing - I said something about the selected Part being the only one that would have its elements controlled by sliders. That's fine and good - but left off what's going on when no Parts are selected (like when you press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) ). In this case, it's always the 1st Part's elements that have levels tied to the sliders.

You can see all of this by pressing [SHIFT] + [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) - which is also called "INFO". This brings up the rats nest. You can turn off all lines except for sliders which will show you which Part's elements are leveled by the sliders. The screen tells you, at some level, what's going on at the 1,000ft level. Maybe 500ft.

but left off what's going on when no Parts are selected (like when you press [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) ). In this case, it's always the 1st Part's elements that have levels tied to the sliders.

Yeah, I noticed that too when playing around with it, trying to figure a way to get more Elements from multiple PARTs working (which I now know is not possible), and it was always PART1 that I could control the Elements on via the Sliders.

A Whiter Shade was the hardest to get close to exact, but I figured it out after someone mentioned 68860000 and I realized he is using the lower Percussion (long, not short), etc.
But in the end it was worth it, as I learned a lot and had fun as well 🙂

That’s the most important thing.

Just some things to consider:
When making the Whiter Shade B3 sound you notice all the 0 drawbar settings... there is no bigger waste of synthesizer resources than engaging an Element, and then using its polyphony to reproduce a 0 Output.

The MONTAGE does not have drawbars. They go in the wrong direction, the spacing is wrong, and there are only eight of them. — That’s the reality check. We will stipulate to those facts.

Okay if you want to “work” the drawbars (that is, seasoned organist ‘play’ the drawbars like an effect... they transition the sound, like morphing, this can be an art in itself. But if you are simply jumping from “preset” organ tone to a different “preset” organ tone, then I would highly recommend an entirely different approach. Instead of trying to bend the instrument into a pretzel trying to make it do this — try building the sound up from scratch using a more efficient methodology.

688600000 + percussion could be done with 5 Elements
Actually, it can be done with one Element... being that the song “Whiter Shade of Pale” and the Tone Wheel settings for that song are classic, legend, that sound has been elevated to the status of iconic. It is an integral part of the modern B3 vocabulary.

If you do a Waveform Category Search, and play through the provided Organ > Tone Wheel, Main/SubCategory, you’ll find “White Shade of Pale” as single Waveforms named “ToneWheel1 Slow” and “ToneWheel1 Fast”

They actually sampled with the rotary speaker and the percussion of that B3 setting.
Sure you’ll find each drawbar footage sampled separately, so you could build it with the 16’, the 5 1/3’, the 8’ and the 4’ ... then fashion the percussion you’d need ... or... check this out:

Find the Performance called “Whiter Bars”
Element 1 and 2 make up the basis of the whole sound.
The MW changes from the Element 1 (sampled with slow Leslie) to Element 2 (sampled with fast Leslie)
Both sampled w/percussion.

The other Elements 3-5 add noise, grit, etc., etc.
if I need to play Whiter Shade of Pale, I could do it with just Element 1 and 2 of this Performance.

Just a note: contrary to things some people think, at Yamaha the engineers, the marketing managers, the product specialists, are all musicians.
How common is the first four drawbars full out (888800000) of course, there is a Waveform that is a sample of that.
How often do you find the first and last drawbars full out (800000008), of course there is a Waveform “Gospel” — that’s iconic, part of the popular vocabulary. As is all nine drawbars full out (888888888) of course that’s there... I'm talking as single Waveforms.

Just mentioning this as a different approach. When you find yourself thinking about plugging the MIDI Out to the MIDI In, it’s time to stop and maybe find or use a different approach. Nothing wrong with experimenting, but don’t overlook the fact that what you seek may be able to be accomplished entirely differently and every bit as effectively using things already provided.

You could layer violins, violas, cellos, and contrabasses to make a string orchestra sound... no doubt... but if you have several other things you also need to do in the same Performance... recognize while Yamaha hired all of those string section players, they not only sample the individual sections... but somewhere there is likely a Waveform that is a sample of the entire ensemble in glorious stereo!

Have fun!

@BM
I'll definitely check that out! Thanks...

Something to note and to request from Yamaha as a future feature/enhancement:

After taking an Organimation Organ and replacing all of the 9 drawbar waveforms with Preset waveforms, they all virtually sound identical to each other & both organs (Organimation & Preset based organs) with all 9 elements/waveforms Full out (888888888), sound virtually identical; However being that when requiring an Organ sound with all 9 drawbars pulled out all the way (Full), it is quite taxing on polyphony, so it would be better in that scenario to use a single element/waveform that has all 9 recorded.
I first checked all possibilities within the Montage presets. Full Draw, Full Draw+ & Full Draw- were the only waveform options that I could find for this that might work (except for a few full rock organ waveforms I found, which have distortion or overdrive in the sound).

"Full Draw" was the closest preset I could find to sound like either the Organimation or my Preset version of the 9 Element/waveform full sounding organ, but it is not nearly as good nor as close to either the Organimation or my version with the Preset replacements for the 9 elements. Then I tried the single Organimation waveform called "KS Full Drawbars", and it is virtually identical to both the Organimation and my preset version of it with all 9 elements/waveforms.

So, my ask is for Yamaha to resample the "Full Draw" waveform to be as good or better than the Organimation one, and provide as a Preset in a future update. It is odd that Yamaha did such a great job sampling 9 separate waveforms for each of the drawbars, but didn't do a great job with sampling a single waveform of all 9 bars Full...

You can use Sample Robot to sample a more taxing multi-element organ to reduce it down to a single element. Be sure to turn off all effects, LFOs, and other sources of modulation so these can be applied to a "clean" sampled sound.

You can use Sample Robot to sample a more taxing multi-element organ to reduce it down to a single element. Be sure to turn off all effects, LFOs, and other sources of modulation so these can be applied to a "clean" sampled sound.

The Organimation one is relatively small, so I can just use that one as it is already perfectly sampled. The reason I thought I'd ask it because it would be nice to have an Organ Performance that is completely created from Preset waveforms only Not sure why Yamaha didn't capture/sample the Full Draw waveform as good as it could have been, seeing as they captured each individual Draw's waveform perfectly. But the Full Draw is unusable and sounds almost fake or like certain draw bars were not all the way out when it was sampled...
Based on the Organimation waveform for this, it wouldn't take a lot of Preset space, it would only take Yamaha time to re-sample. But then they would have that sound as a Preset and could have Full Draw organs that sound great and more realistic. I am happy to continue using the Organimation waveform, but would like to see the Montage/MODX have this improved, making them both better synths in the process. They could create a new Performance or Two with it to show that it's right on par with any other synth's organ sound or even possibly any modelled VST organ... Right now, the Full Draw waveform is sub-par.

Time for an ideascale entry if you haven't made one already.

BTW: There are 3 "Full Draw" samples. "Full Draw", "Full Draw+", and "Full Draw-". I like "Full Draw-" and start with that. Actually, that's not the start. The start is to load "Init Normal (AWM2)" so I know I start with no effects and most things zero'd out. AWM2 is not velocity sensitive which matches an organ - so, for organs at least, that's a good thing. Less programming.

Then after Init Normal (AWM2) and changing Element 1 to "Full Draw-", I go back to the "Common" area of the Part and change the 3-band EQ so the mids are boosted. I just like this EQ a little better. I mainly say this to remind that you can shape the sound of an organ fairly well with EQ since the organ is about specific harmonics. You can bring out some more with or lessen others with EQ. There's other tools in the toolbox to take your sample of choice and shape it.

I didn't think the "Full Draw" sounded too bad.

BTW: There are 3 "Full Draw" samples. "Full Draw", "Full Draw+", and "Full Draw-".

I didn't think the "Full Draw" sounded too bad.

I checked all 3 of those and also found Full Draw was the best of the 3; however not nearly as good or close as the Organimation Full waveform.
I did try everything I could to make the Preset "Full Draw" sound close to the Organimation/9 Preset Waveforms full out organ, but it just wasn't cutting it.