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Multi Part Performance Always Anchored From Part 1?

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Michael Trigoboff
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Honorable Member
Topic starter
 

In another thread, Bad Mister said:

For example, a Multi Part Montage Performance is always anchored from Part 1. Fight that fact if you wish, it will not change the way Montage works and would lead to frustration, not for any other reason than not having read and understood how it works.

Can't a multi-part performance start at part 2, 3, etc? If I put drums in part 1, and bass in part 2, and then merge in some multi-part performance in parts 3-5, as far as I know I could play that multi-part instrument by setting keyboard input for 3-5. I'd still have to replicate the Super Knob setup for it, but that seems possible to me.

Or am I missing something?

 
Posted : 01/11/2016 2:05 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

If you "merge" 3-4-5 into with a two Part Performance, it becomes one multi Part Performance anchored with Part 1. There can be only one Multi Part Performance. If you merge Part 2 with Part 1, you have a Multi Part Performance with two Parts, if you then "merge" a three Part Performance to Parts 3, 4, and 5 you now have one five Part Performance, still anchored by Part 1. Did you mean "merge" as the term is used in Montage-tech talk?

If yes, then understand that channel 1 has a significant role in being the anchor for the Multi Part (KBD CTRL) Performance. If your Multi Part Performance occupies Parts 1-5, then Parts 6 thru 16 are available for individual Single (separately controlled) Parts.

If this is not what you meant, and you mean you have a Single Part Drum in Part 1, and a Single Part Bass in Part 2, (both not under KBD CTRL), then a multi Part 3-4-5... That's trouble (IMHO).

The Montage can transmit on multiple channels, 1-8, when in MIDI I/O mode = Multi; each Part of the factory Presets starts with Part 1, and this is not by accident. Part 1 transmits on Channel 1, Part 2 on channel 2, Part 3 on channel 3 and so on. The Super Knob sends data (whether System Exclusive or CC) on MIDI channel 1. And that's always the case.

So say you do have a Performance with properly assigned knobs starting with Part 3-4-5 - this can be done easily using the Part Exchange feature - again nothing would stop you, but when you record the data remember the Super Knob is generating data on MIDI channel 1, even though Note-ons and Controller data will be documented on its channel 3-4-5 on a per Part basis. But the System Exclusive messages, which do not require any specific channel, transmit on the basic channel of the instrument, which is"1". (Even if you set the Super Knob to send CC95, this data is output as a message on Channel 1). This convention for Sysex data is pretty standard - if you are going to have separated MIDI tracks, by convention, the Sysex data is usually shown on Track 1 with MIDI channel 1 data.

What do you hope to gain by building a Performance with the Multiple Parts starting any where but with 1?

Actually, I've never thought to do this because of the Super Knob and the data it generates for multiple Parts being on channel 1. If you've run into no problems it's probably because you've not pushed the system any quite yet. I'm trying to imagine how something additional being recorded to channel 1 would not be interfered with if controller data not directly concerning it is routed to it on its MIDI channel. It could cause a wild serendipitous journey. I'll need to look into if you can change the channel on which Montage generates this Super Knob (Parameter Change ) messages... If that's possible, that removes the conflict that I'm worried about.

I'll have to try it. Just to see how things could/would get crossed up... If you've been doing this without issue, then I stand corrected. But it seems to me there's issues waiting to rise up. As I said there is nothing to prevent you, you will always need to keep the track with the Sysex data active for your multiple Parts to behave correctly... I'll do some experiments and let you know.

When you "merge" you create one Multi Part Performance - there can be only one. (see recently posted article on "Using Montage Category Search" - especially the Section on "Performance Merge"

 
Posted : 01/11/2016 3:02 am
Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

It'd be worthwile to double-check the premise - but if certain actions can "break" some linkages leaving orphans (a bad situation) then it would be best for Montage to be self-aware and at least report some issue - maybe draw an "X" over superknob in the INFO screen. Or otherwise show what is no longer going to work.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 01/11/2016 5:07 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

There is no issue of anything breaking a link. If you exchange Parts they maintain their link to the Super Knob, that's not the issue here at all. It's that the Super Knob outputs its data on channel 1, by default, even if you activate your KBD CTRL just in Part 8. I can think of no good reason to ever start building a Multi Part Performance anywhere but with Part 1 - is all I'm saying. Someday when I have enough time I will explore all the esoteric/unusual possibilities.... There are bound to be many on Montage.

 
Posted : 01/11/2016 5:36 am
Michael Trigoboff
Posts: 0
Honorable Member
Topic starter
 

What do you hope to gain by building a Performance with the Multiple Parts starting any where but with 1?

I wasn't hoping to do anything in particular, I just wanted to understand why Multi Part Performances needed to be anchored at Part 1. And now I do, thanks to your explanation about how the Super Knob always sends on MIDI Channel 1.

Thanks!

 
Posted : 02/11/2016 1:54 am
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