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new control assign function

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Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hi,

I´m trying to do exactly what Blake is doing in this Video:

https://youtu.be/YN8IvCiWRwA?t=19m7s

and not getting the same result.
my part control button blinks and his doesn´t
my control assign button does not light up and I can´t do anything
I´m completely lost here....

update:
mhhhh. something is weird. control assign works fine with some performances and I get nowhere with others and I don´t know why, nor what it means when part assign blinks

 
Posted : 03/03/2018 9:49 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Instead of trying to do exactly what Blake is doing, why not state what YOU want to accomplish.

my part control button blinks and his doesn´t

Your [PART CONTROL] button is blinking because you have touched [SHIFT] + [PART CONTROL] and have set the FADERs to become ELEMENT/OPERATOR level controls, instead of Part Volumes. When [PART CONTROL] flashes, you have *selected* a Part, and are using the FADERs as individual levels within that Part, for example, when doing “draw bars” for an organ sound.

my control assign button does not light up and I can´t do anything

The [CONTROL ASSIGN] button will only glow when you have moved the cursor highlight to a parameter that actually can be assigned to be controlled. Not all parameters can be assigned to real time control... when you highlight one of these the button lights.

update:
mhhhh. something is weird. control assign works fine with some performances and I get nowhere with others and I don´t know why, nor what it means when part assign blinks

Well, you have a [PART CONTROL] button (explained above) and you have a [CONTROL ASSIGN] button but I’m afraid there no such thing as a blinking [PART ASSIGN] button (sic).

I suggest you take your time. Learn the front panel buttons
State a goal... “I want to assign Filter Cutoff control to the Super Knob.”
Then see if you can navigate to the Filter Cutoff parameter and make that assignment.

 
Posted : 03/03/2018 11:01 am
Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

could it be that my brass 3 performance is messed up, didn't convert right?
because I don't touch anything. when opening brass 3 the part control button flashes by default. if I press on it then it stops flashing, but i still can't assign the skirt of operator 8 like in the Blake Angelos video. the control assign button does not light up.

update: no it's not that. I thought brass 3 was in my converted dx7 library, but it's not, it's in the montage expanded library. and all the performances in there have the same issue. they all flash by default and I can't get control assign to light up. well, not all the performances, but all the single FMx ones I tried.
all other libraries no problem so far.

 
Posted : 03/03/2018 1:09 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

The most likely reason for the confusion is due to not being solid on the various modes of the faders, assignable knobs, etc. There have been other threads I believe where this was walked through and the "light bulb" seemed to go off - but if a new application of the same concept still has you stumped - the feature has not been fully grasped.

Since I believe v1.2, a new feature was added where each performance can be saved with PART CONTROL turned ON or OFF. Before this update, when you switched to a drawbar organ preset - you had to fiddle with buttons to set Montage's mode to PART CONTROL in order to use the sliders as drawbars. However, now those Performances which would best be set to use the sliders in this way have PART CONTROL automatically set so you can use the sliders as drawbars by default. Some Performances are set this way - and some are not. Which is why you would see differences between performances. Your own user Performances can also [STORE] the setting one way or the other. If you're not aware of the mode, how to know which mode Montage is at, or how to set/change it - then this may seem random to you.

The PART CONTROL showing you status is not an issue - the issue is comprehension. Which is fine - and part of why the forum is here to help.

============

However, you're trying to assign something to superknob I assume using the new version 2.00 methods. You have to have v2 firmware - so hopefully that's been successfully done. Although you say you're doing exactly what's in the video - I'd rather not have to follow the video to figure out what you're trying to do. Reduce down the task to something that can be described. What parameter are you trying to control with the superknob (this would be the destination)? What exactly is it labeled as on the touchscreen? ... also: is it the superknob you're trying to assign as the source controller? I assume so due to the video - but spell this out. You're using FM-X PARTs - so that's clear.

It would probably be best to "practice" with the Init Normal (FM-X) performance as a starting point since everyone has that and seems like a reasonable place to start learning assigning FM-X destinations to the superknob as a source. Then branch out to other Performances.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 03/03/2018 4:41 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Jason, ok, that explains why part control ist blinking by default. so far I never needed that function.

I have the new firmware and I did understand the new easy control assign function and it always worked until today when I tried doing exactly what is done in the video at minute 20. I already knew how to use the new control assign button and I only wanted to follow what Blake is doing to "montagefy" brass 3. He says this is a sound from the DX7 cartridge and he will show us how to pep it up, so I assumed I would find it in my DX7 converted library, which is not where it is, I found it in "montage expanded". Also it does not sound at all like the one Blake is using in the video. Are there 2 different versions of brass 3? the one from montage expanded sounds absolutely nothing like the one in the video, and not only because of youtube sound quality, it´s just different, a lot brighter sounding. So I guess he´s got another one, one converted with the FM converter from the old cartridge, which I don´t have even thow I converted the cartridge.....

ok but besides that, I simply cannot assign anything with the control assign button. nothing.
other performances are fine, so it´s not because I don´t know what I can assign or not. it´s because brass 3 (the one from the montage expanded library) is by default in a mode where the assign button function does not work. deactivating the blinking was not enough. something else is going on here. there´s something else I haven´t set right to get out of the default mode that is preventing the assign button from working.

 
Posted : 03/03/2018 5:48 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I have the new firmware and I did understand the new easy control assign function and it always worked until today when I tried doing exactly what is done in the video at minute 20. I already knew how to use the new control assign button and I only wanted to follow what Blake is doing to "montagefy" brass 3. He says this is a sound from the DX7 cartridge and he will show us how to pep it up, so I assumed I would find it in my DX7 converted library, which is not where it is, I found it in "montage expanded". Also it does not sound at all like the one Blake is using in the video. Are there 2 different versions of brass 3? the one from montage expanded sounds absolutely nothing like the one in the video, and not only because of youtube sound quality, it´s just different, a lot brighter sounding. So I guess he´s got another one, one converted with the FM converter from the old cartridge, which I don´t have even thow I converted the cartridge.....

Blake is clearly talking about another “Brass 3” program (unfortunately with tens of thousands of DX sounds from scores of different programmers, “Brass 3” is such a common name as to be useless for clear identification).

Blake clearly is working with a raw converted DX7 sound, same as you would start with if you start with an actual DX7 sound. The web based “FM CONVERTER” here on YamahaSynth.com allows you to connect your old DX7, TX7, TX802, TX816 directly or you can drag n drop a DX/TX Sysex bulk and it spits out a file you can load to the MONTAGE FM-X engine.

In fact, I’m sure that “Brass 3” is one from the original ROM cartridges. The “Montage Expanded” data has already been, as you say, “montageified” by someone. You can’t assign anything because all 16 Control Set SOURCE/DESTINATION boxes have been filled. They are not doing much of anything however.

To me, it looks like this could be used in a tutorial of some kind where everything they wanted to cover was pre assigned, and all you need to do to work it is apply “depth”. I’m guessing. Because most of the press signed parameters the CURVE/RATIO/shaping parameters are set to no change. Filter Resonance is setup for control but no Filter is assigned to the Part. It’s curious. (You can DELETE the programming and do your own...)

So you have picked, perhaps, the worst FM-X sound to attempt to do what Blake was doing. Instead of zero MONTAGE parameters applied, you selected a sound already maxed out by the author of the Montage Expanded version of a sound that just also happens to also be named “Brass 3”

I think the original DX7 Cart sounds are posted somewhere...

 
Posted : 03/03/2018 10:08 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

ahhh, the mystery is cleared up! well there are a lot of single fmx sounds besides Brass 3 in that montage expanded library that apparently have 16 things preassigned that do nothing because their assign button does not light up. very strange thow...ok, thank you, now I know what's going on there...

I went thru a series of single FMx performances in that library, they all have the exact same 16 assigments that do nothing.

 
Posted : 03/03/2018 11:44 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

FM Converter Trial Data

 
Posted : 04/03/2018 3:41 am
Joel
 Joel
Posts: 597
Prominent Member
 

Hi to complete DX7 trial link from Bas Mister, i have group some link's with lot of DX7 sounds on my Moessieurs webpage :

http://www.moessieurs.com/download-base-fmx.html

And M. C have already done a great work of selection and conversion already made on FM Converter for DX7 sounds in Library file format :

http://www.moessieurs.com/mc-fmx.html

-DX7 Collection.X7L, more than 130 DX7 famous sounds
-DX7 EPS.X7L a hundred FM piano.
-NewToday.X7L, forty more modern sounds.

- Ultimate Analog.X7L, over 570 DX7 sounds repeating sounds of 80s synthesizer, some performances have the same name as "Analog" to be found on numerous occasions, but those are different sounds.

With this you can explore more deeper FM-X 😉

Use google translator tool in top banner to translate Moessieurs in your native language, not perfect but enough good 😉

 
Posted : 04/03/2018 9:49 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Thank you, Joel!

 
Posted : 04/03/2018 2:57 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Since the root cause of your [CONTROL ASSIGN] issue was that destinations were filled (all 16 used) and therefore the system would not allow for you to add more: the suggestion stands to practice assignments using the "Init Normal (FM-X)" preset - that preset has no destinations assigned.

Many times it's best to go back to "home base" to prevent extraneous performance settings from "confusing" the issue - and the presets under the "Init" category serve this purpose for FM-X, AWM2, and MIDI.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 04/03/2018 11:48 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

The INIT is one way to go, but unless you are an experienced programmer, it can be scary to start that much “from scratch”... this is why Yamaha have made available the Motif XF Performance data and the FM Converter data to provide “starting points” that don’t require you reinvent the wheel.

For a lot of folks Montage-ifying the XF or DX7 data is really on point because of the minimal amount of inherited controller setups.
In the XF Performance data at maximum you’ll find just two of the eight Assign Knobs programmed per Part, and a maximum of six of the sixteen potential Control Sets per Part... with no programming on the upper Common (Super Knob) level of the architecture... and with the DX7 sounds while they are just what they were back in the 1980’s, there are no Effects, and virtually no real time control assigned...

so these become like ideal things to build up from... without having to blank the canvas completely. You can start with a decent sounding program and you can integrate it with the Motion Control functions...

The current “Motif XF Performance Conversion” series of tutorials is all about learning to explore and then expand on the original programming. Ultimately, you can always start from the INIT but it helps to see what the original programmers were up to ... as a method of learning what is possible.

That DX7 Signature Brass sound was everywhere back in the day; today, it is fun to start there and add effects, and a filter and controllers, create a Motion Sequence with it, etc., etc.
On a different day it might be fun to see how that sound was built “from scratch”, then you might want to start from INIT.
It’s a synth with many approaches...

 
Posted : 05/03/2018 3:18 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

well now we found out that for reasons still unknown all the "montage expanded" single FMX performances have 16 identical assignments that aren´t set to do anything. sounds a bit like a bug, if those assigments were intended, why would they all be identical and not do anything? but ok, if the assign button does not light up then we can now look for this issue.

I did download all the DX7 peformances from Moessieurs and also convert my old ones a while ago, thank you!

I was not set on Brass 3, not particularly in love with that sound at all, just tried to learn something from the video by following it exactly and got stuck with the wrong Brass 3 performance and that weird assignment issue of "montage expanded".

 
Posted : 05/03/2018 4:46 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

It is sub-optimal performance programming. This is no bug of Montage. Should be taken up with Easy Sounds or Cool Webinars (Yamahamusicsoft page doesn't list who did the FMX work in the set) maybe the readme does.

In the meantime, the assignments are easy to delete if you want to create your own user versions.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 05/03/2018 5:06 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I’m guessing but it seems those assignments were premade as part of some tutorial (or webinar), (especially as they are so consistent throughout the FM-X sounds), so rather than making everyone step through making all the assignments they set these up as some kind of work template. To assign them with zero “depth” application, seems only logical in some kind of teaching demonstration. I agree if there is some documentation accompanying that Bank it may give us the clue... I can imagine a context where this would make a good basic template for control over FM-X sounds...

 
Posted : 05/03/2018 5:33 pm
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