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no sync with Magix Samplitude

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Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
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Hi everyone, I had to switch to Cubase because I absolutely cannot get my DAW Magix Music Studio to sync with the Montage. Everything works very well in Cubase, but Magix has some advantages I miss. I played with it again today. I wish I could understand what is going on. I assume noone else here has this DAW because it is not one of the more popular ones. But since you know so much about midi, maybe you can help me figure this out.

The problem is that with Magix, the Montage plays a whole lot of rubbish. It will also drum by itself, it will make a weird beat every 3 or 4 seconds. It is in sync with the DAw when I record but it does not even play the right sounds. I get completely different drum sounds than the drum kit in my drum part and also completely different arps that I have no idea where they are coming from... Everything sounds completely chaotic. Absolutely mindboggling...

I checked what is going on with midi ox. Here are a few screenshots. Even when the DAW is not in record or play, there are some timing clock messages which cause the montage to drum on it´s own, as seen on the first screenshot. Sometimes there also are note on messages even thow I am not playing anything on the montage....

Sync settings in the DAW are:
MC out active
chase lock sync off
sync velocity 100

besides that you can set a whole bunch of other things:
use sample-exact reference time from audio device (???)
sysex in
Systemtime as midi stamp (???)
noet on chasing (???)
send all notes off stop (???)

the montage is of course set to midi rec or arp rec.

I have no high hopes that this can every be resolved, but I thought I´d try asking.

Attached files

 
Posted : 20/02/2017 8:36 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Gabi,
You have not understood what is being sent via MIDI. Until you do, the problems you are having with Cubase will only manifest themselves in whatever you connect to...

Sorry, we cannot help you with your setup of this software. We don't really see any question to answer. So we'll just say, it's the same MIDI over here as it is in Cubase.

FE Active Sensing - Montage identifying itself as connected
F8 MIDI Clock - Montage clock counting time

Basic MIDI messages.

 
Posted : 20/02/2017 1:07 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

I would recommend, under MIDI-OX, filtering out the system realtime messages (Options -> MIDI Filter ...). Here, instead of filtering "All", I have selected only F8 (timing clock) and FE (active sensing) as these are sent periodically even when there are no "interesting" MIDI messages sent. To avoid cluttering the data, I just turn these off. If you wanted to diagnose a clock issue (like you were changing the clock source and wanted to see that take) - then you could temporarily turn the timing clock back on.

Not sure if you have an ARP playing and have the ARP setup to send MIDI for each note. This would be one way to see note on/off messages without playing. Also, depending on the speed of the display - if you have all the realtime messages showing - then there may be a delay in the display which would get more in sync with your playing after turning those off (if this aligns with what you're observing about note-on/off messages without playing keys).

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 20/02/2017 5:42 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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Topic starter
 

Hi Jason. When I filter this then the midi output monitor stops moving. I don´t see any other events happening.
I no longer see note on offs, but the montage keeps making random drum sounds, and always only drum sounds no mater what performance.
The software is recording in sync now during my test, but it just won´t stop drumming after ending the recording. Every time there´s an F8 message to be seen in Midi Ox, the montage makes a diffferent drum sound. I do not see any note on and off messages, but the drum sound is a different note each time and it goes on forever....

update: it stopped! the drumming stopped! maybe there is hope...

found part of the problem: it will only sync when the software is running (playback or rec). as soon as it stops the montage becomes unplayable, even in standalone mode.

 
Posted : 20/02/2017 6:35 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

You have the DAW set to send the MIDI clock - what's Montage set at? I don't have the board setup to check the profile defaults for MIDI clock.

[UTILITY] Tempo Settings, MIDI Sync should be set to MIDI (i.e. external).

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 21/02/2017 10:16 am
Gabi
 Gabi
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Hi Jason, DAW is set to send midi clock and in the montage, midi sync is set to midi.

With all the weirdness going on I did not realize that recording in sync actually works. What does not work is playing the Monatge when not recording....

from my ignorant observations, the problem seems to be that there is only correct syncronisation when the DAW is either playing back or recording, but some disrupting tempo messages are sent when it is idle that are putting the montage into a snail tempo and out of order. It will play the arps at a tempo exactly at the speed of those F8 messages seen in Midi Ox. Meaning extremely slow. This causes the drumming sounds, Those are actually the drum arps being played at extreme snail pace...

update:
I ran Cubase thru Midi Ox. I get no F8 messages except at the start and end of playback or recording. Absolutely no F8 messages when idle. So this is it. I need to stop the F8 messages sent by Magix Music Studio. Don´t know how...

 
Posted : 21/02/2017 12:19 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Looks like Samplitude doesn't send clocks when it is itself idle. So I would think, from what you describe you're trying to do, you want a free-running clock.

Why not setup Montage as the clock source since it is not affected by samplitude's recording or playback state.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 21/02/2017 4:11 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

I just tried that but I can´t set it up. I put the montage into midi sync internal and the software makes "waiting for sync" error messages.

 
Posted : 22/02/2017 10:37 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Clock Out needs to be ON.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 22/02/2017 11:10 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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yes, clock out is on. today nothing works at all. I get the error message Montage 1 cannot be opened, used by other aplication. I´m too tired of this. I cannot stand it anymore. I give up. Thank you for your help.

 
Posted : 23/02/2017 10:47 am
Gabi
 Gabi
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Topic starter
 

since I´m having trouble getting my microkorg to sync I just saw a tutorial on that one. It is perfectly normal for the microkorg only to get in sync when you push play in the DAW. So, my issue with Samplitude and the Montage might be normal. It works when I push play. Now, why the Montage is in sync with Cubase at all times even when nothing is playing but the Microkorg can never be in sync with any DAW without playing is of course something I do not understand. Bad Mister said midi clock is midi clock. Then all midi devices receiving midi clock should work the same shouldn´t they?...

 
Posted : 23/02/2017 4:45 pm
Ron
 Ron
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Eminent Member
 

Hi Gabi , I do not know wat version you use of Magix samplitude studio ?? But i do use some times the Magix samplitude studio 2014 version and works just fine
here a example of my setting in magix studio 2014 >> audio set up to Driver system Asio , audio driver on Yamaha Steinberg usb /24 bits. Clock sourse > internal <
Midi in / Midi out yamaha montage 123 , Globel record / play of . Yamaha montage 1 use the Montage as audio/ midi interface true usb cable.
works perfect on audio and also as midi recording mix etc etc

 
Posted : 23/02/2017 8:51 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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Topic starter
 

Hi Ron, another Magix user? Unbelievable! We'll have to compare screenshots of settings 🙂 I have version 2013 but it shouldn't really be different... I'll make screenshots of all my settings tomorrow.

update: in the Cubase forum they are saying you have to activate midi clock in stop mode for the sync to be there even when nothing plays. I don´t see any stop mode setting in samplitude. Do you know where that is?

 
Posted : 23/02/2017 9:15 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Ron, here are my screenshots, it´s in german but I think you´ll see what they mean. Is there anything different in your setup?
When you say it works perfectly, does that mean your montage stays in sync even when no project is playing?
is your little green sync light always on? mine is only on when Magix plays back or records.

Attached files

 
Posted : 24/02/2017 11:42 am
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