Sam wrote:

Hi everyone, I'm new here.

We know that the DX7 sounds will be converted for Montage. But what about the SY 77 & 99 FM sounds?
I have an SY77...still going strong... I'd love to have my favorite sounds ported over to the Montage. Is that in the pipeline?
Regards, Sam

No, afraid not. Thanks for the question.

The SY version of FM (third generation) was called AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) It built on the first two generations of FM, expanding on the Feedback routing capability (previously fixed to one per Algorithm) allowing very flexible interaction, and even allowing external audio in as a Modulator; it also expanded on the library of source waves (second generation 4-Op units had multiple source waves) from 8 to 16, and it expanded the algorithm chart from 32 to 45, making building complex sounds easier because you needed less Operators to do so.

This branch of the FM tree, was also backward compatible to the original DX FM (6-Operator sine wave only, 32 Algorithm FM). While the "open" Operator architecture of AFM did open the door to some brand new areas of sound creation, the fourth generation (FS1R) went in a slightly different direction,... Upping the Algorithm count to 88, and instead of just 16 fixed source waves, introduced a system where you could construct the harmonic structure of your source in a more continuous fluid way. Basically, you can select what is referred to as a Spectral Form that is based on a specific harmonic arrangement... There were 7 Forms. Spectral Forms containing All harmonics generating Sawtooth waves, Spectral Forms containing no even numbered harmonics generates the Pulse Wave family, there are even sources with resonance harmonics... All can be adjusted (as to timbre) using the parameter called a Skirt... which helps shape the harmonics being heard. This innovation gives us the widest variety of source tones and can give the same result as the Feedback loop where signal is fed back on itself. The FS1R also introduced a fixed frequency formant source for human speech.

FM-X the version found in the Montage borrows heavily on the fourth generation FS1R, but again the devil of the differences is in the details. Instead of external sources being introduced into the Operator as Modulators (as in AFM), the relationship and interactivity between the AWM2 (sample) engine and the FM-X engine is what is brand new. It borrows something from each of the previous generations and combines them into something unique. Motion Control allows the audio of external devices (drums, arps, microphone, etc) to create change/interact/influence the sonic results. Think about automating almost anything... For example, I could use a marimba Part being arpeggiated to influence the Operator output level of just the Modulators in an FM-X stack... Increasing the output of a Modulator will change the timbre of the FM-X result... So if the FM-X sound is a pad sound, I'll hear the timbre of the pad change in rhythmic response to the note events of that arpeggiated marimba phrase.

FM-X is based on the original DX FM, but also borrows something from each of the previous generations... The result is something completely new and different.

Those recognizing that the Montage combines AWM2 + AFM, get one-point for knowing their synth history, but the inner workings, what's going on 'under-the-hood' is deeply different in each version. And yet the thread that runs through them all is the original DX FM. They all can read that original data, then they each branch off into what made each of them unique and very different. To think they are all the same (when I read that it makes my skin crawl) would be a very limited view of the FM synthesis history.

I explained the feeling to a fellow musician... When you are standing outside of something looking in, it can tend to all look the same in there. But when you are into it, you can easily discern the differences. (Devil in the details) If you're not into jazz, you might say it all sounds the same - and to that person it probably does. If you're not into thrash metal, from the outside it may all sounds the same. If your not into reggae, or EDM, salsa, or folk music, merengue, ... You simply don't hear it like those who are deeply into it.

I remember reading some famous jazz critic, back in 1970, saying the problem with the FenderRhodes was that everyone sounds the same when they play it. (I can put on Miles Davis electric band record, even today) and tell Joe Zawinul, from Chick Corea, no sweat. What made this (very famous) jazz critic not be able to tell, it's because they were on the outside looking in - something clouds that vision.

Well, if your not into something, there's something that doesn't let your brain discern the differences, but if your into it, it is as clear as day. I've had this conversation with other (long time) FM nuts, like myself... Where we gather 'round and fondly remember our favorite versions of FM, favorite discoveries, favorite programming tricks... And when we come out of the fog of memory lane, we can't wait to get deeper into what is on offer here.

It's not a rehash, or a reissue, it's a completely different animal.

Back to your question. If your favorite AFM voice is actually one just ported in from the original DX FM, it can live again in Montage.
But certainly there are AFM voices that simply would not translate to FM-X directly... due to architectural differences.

Thanks for the question.

Hey Bad Mister,
Thank you very much for your detailed description of FM synths and it's clear that you know the history of these creatures. I'm new to Yamaha synths (though I own a Vl-70m, a powerful little module on physical modeling, type of synthesis by the way not deeply explored beyond the emulation of analog synths), and I want to dig deeply into FM. I own also a Korg Kronos 2 88, DSI mono Evolver, Prophet 08, Pro 2 and Mopho, Waldorf microwave XT, micro Q and Pulse plus, Nord micromodular, Korg Wavestation SR, MS20 mini, Arp odyssey, Marion Systems MSR2 (made and conceived by Oberheim), and an old Kyma system. As you can see, a lot of stuff but not FM, except for the Kronos. One of the synth engines is MOD-7, which is, supposedly, a very powerful incarnation of FM (I suppose in the DX tradition, so to speak).
Recently I had the opportunity to play and try the new Montage (6), and I was impressed with the FM side (not to much with the rest: I found many "new" things that sounded a little bit retro, as if it were a new approach to PPG, Wavestation and other well known though not too much explored synthesis types. However the sound quality and clean signal was also impressive. What I was attracted to was the FMX, though it seemed to me that was not as well represented in the presets as the advanced sample and synthesis side, plus the motion control and super knob.
What I felt was a deep curiosity on the history and evolution of the FM. I remember the appearance of the DX7, but at that time, it was more about reproducing convincing replicas of xylophone, bandoneon, vibes, etc, (not possible with analog), instead of understanding the true nature of its complexity. I also remember how analog synths from that era wanted to emulate some of DX7 patches, like the Jx9p from Roland, and how sadly the design became more "Japanese" (= simple, clean, less knobsand sliders, membrane buttons, almost no hands on controls to tweak). Maybe it was the invasion of those (in)famous sounds from the DX7, and the legend of not being easy to program, what was responsible for the lack of interest that guys like me still wanting to have an OBXa or a Xpander.
My point now is to invest some time to explore FM. And I wonder if you know the MOD-7 engine found on the Kronos.
Also, I saw on ebay here, an SY77 in very well condition (though it is not clear is the disk drive works), and very cheap (at least in Argentinean terms). Is worth of attention or I should use my Kronos instead? I would love to get a FS1R (which is most of FMX and adds the formant spectra)
The more I read about the SY series, the more interested I am. But I wonder if it is outdated or there is some alternative. Have in mind that I am interested in synthetic sounds (however I could use sample content in order to modulate or to built something synthetic out of it)
Sorry for the long message. Hope my English was OK. My Spanish is wonderful ha ha!
All best from Buenos Aires,
Gustavo