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There's an early adopter deal for the next day and change for the Roli Piano which uses a traditional piano keybed that sports Poly Aftertouch, pitch bend (key wiggle), and attack + release velocity. I don't believe Montage (M, ESP, or otherwise) can take advantage of release velocity. The rest is useful.
Not sure what, if any, zoning can be done with the Roli. I haven't dug into it enough. But with the early bird discount, for what it is it seems like a reasonable option to drive ESP if you can stand the low number of keys. There's also a bundle deal with their hand waving detector to that is an ok deal if you want that kind of expression. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own.
The keybed can light up each key to any color. Which would be cool if Montage/ESP would magically tell Roli Piano where your splits are and color each region a different color. But we all know this feature will likely be too difficult to practically use for most.
Can't vouch for the feel (good or bad) of this keyboard. You do get a software synth with it although I haven't heard anything in the demos that blew me away with a very limited listen.
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 24/01/2025 6:23 am
Topic starter
Probable deal breaker: no mod or pitch wheels. You have to use the key wiggle for pitch and live without a mod wheel.
Lack of buttons and knobs on this thing probably makes it a poor replacement for another controller that has more of these that you would assign to scene or other desired controls.
YMMV
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 24/01/2025 6:31 am
No - Montage M doesn't support release velocity.
I don't see that there is a manual available yet but for that price point you can't expect too much detail in one anyway.
No experience with Roli products. Do the 'wiggle' and 'slide' translate into standard MIDI that could control similar actions on an M?
Your sentiment about the lack of knobs/controls is likely spot-on since the very essence of a 'controller' is being able to control and most of my peers expect to use knobs, sliders or ribbons for that.
Do you any experience using an instrument that supports release velocity? I don't, but at first blush I wonder if it takes a fair amount of practice and skill to control the lifting of your fingers. Almost everything in human experience revolves more around closing the fingers/hand rather than delicately opening it.
What would be the best, most typical, use cases for release velocity? Can any of those be emulated in other ways on the Montage?
Posted : 24/01/2025 8:56 pm
As an owner of various ROLI products, I can probably comment here.
I have to assume that ROLI Piano will use ROLI Dashboard for configuration, like all other ROLI products. This being the case, there are no facilities to split the keyboard or transmit on different MIDI channels depending upon the area of the keyboard being played (see attached configurator for ROLI Seaboard Rise).
For MONTAGE M owners, this isn't a massive problem, as it's possible to use an external controller and have it target different performance parts while using just a single incoming MIDI channel, as I demonstrated in my multi-keyboard performance video.
With regard to per-key pitch bend, if it works anything like the Seaboard products, it will be implemented via MPE, which MONTAGE M does not (yet?) support.
By default, the ROLI Piano will almost certainly default to MPE mode for all functions as with the Seaboard, but there is the ability to configure Seaboard to transmit poly-AT rather than MPE, so the same should be true of ROLI Piano.
Generally speaking, I'm a fan of ROLI products so I have a Piano on order from batch 1, and I will report back when I get my hands on it.
Posted : 27/01/2025 12:58 pm
As an owner of various ROLI products, I can probably comment here.
I have to assume that ROLI Piano will use ROLI Dashboard for configuration, like all other ROLI products. This being the case, there are no facilities to split the keyboard or transmit on different MIDI channels depending upon the area of the keyboard being played (see attached configurator for ROLI Seaboard Rise).
For MONTAGE M owners, this isn't a massive problem, as it's possible to use an external controller and have it target different performance parts while using just a single incoming MIDI channel, as I demonstrated in my multi-keyboard performance video.
With regard to per-key pitch bend, if it works anything like the Seaboard products, it will be implemented via MPE, which MONTAGE M does not (yet?) support.
By default, the ROLI Piano will almost certainly default to MPE mode for all functions as with the Seaboard, but there is the ability to configure Seaboard to transmit poly-AT rather than MPE, so the same should be true of ROLI Piano.
Generally speaking, I'm a fan of ROLI products so I have a Piano on order from batch 1, and I will report back when I get my hands on it.
Posted : 27/01/2025 1:00 pm
As an owner of various ROLI products, I can probably comment here... if this *&@^*^!@! forum will actually process my response without falling over...
I have to assume that ROLI Piano will use ROLI Dashboard for configuration, like all other ROLI products. This being the case, there are no facilities to split the keyboard or transmit on different MIDI channels depending upon the area of the keyboard being played (see attached configurator for ROLI Seaboard Rise).
For MONTAGE M owners, this isn't a massive problem, as it's possible to use an external controller and have it target different performance parts while using just a single incoming MIDI channel, as I demonstrated in my multi-keyboard performance video.
With regard to per-key pitch bend, if it works anything like the Seaboard products, it will be implemented via MPE, which MONTAGE M does not (yet?) support.
By default, the ROLI Piano will almost certainly default to MPE mode for all functions as with the Seaboard, but there is the ability to configure Seaboard to transmit poly-AT rather than MPE, so the same should be true of ROLI Piano.
Seaboard also supports release velocity, which is an interesting thing to play. It's not the easiest thing to use, but it can be useful when playing sounds that could either end softly, or with a release sound, like the sound of a string being plucked slightly as your fingers release it.
Generally speaking, I'm a fan of ROLI products so I have a Piano on order from batch 1, and I will report back when I get my hands on it.
Posted : 27/01/2025 1:04 pm
Apparently my reply is posted, and duplicated three times, but I've no idea how to see it...
I just thought I'd follow up to say that release velocity on ROLI products, when not in MPE mode, is implemented as a data value attached to the note off message, so releasing C4 very fast would generate [Note Off / C4 127], while a very soft release would generate [Note Off / C4 0]. As far as I am aware, MONTAGE and MONTAGE M can't make use of that as a control.
Posted : 27/01/2025 1:14 pm
Topic starter
If you got in on the discount, I think the price was fairly compelling for what you get. The air wave thing is sort of interesting in its own right but not something likely to be a universal need.
Kind of wish they would have had a way to track where along the key length your finger was for modulation as well as keep tracking it up the back of the keyboard to do the seaboard glide type effects. But I think having a more piano key like mechanic rather than the spongy bumps has enough appeal to lose a few gestures.
I'm sure if these take off there will be higher key count versions in the future.
And yes, key off velocity is good for effect sounds that accompany string instruments. Like bow sounds of a violin or scrapes and things of an acoustic guitar. Also, for monophonic say you press down two keys. Only one key will sound and normally letting off of the sounding key and keeping the non sounding one down the remaining key held down will sound. Key off velocity will let you adjust the velocity of this held key by how fast you let go of the first. Theoretically... It's one way to use this. Or you could adjust release envelopes and levels by the release velocity. Or you could do random things like pitch falls or vibrato speed/depth just on the tail or ... This is all kind of separate from how difficult it is or is not to control. In some sense it doesn't matter if it can be deterministic or not. It's one more expression knob you can use or not assuming the tone engine supports it (which we know Montage does not).
Btw: the "best" way to post is to trust that after you hit "add reply" maybe 5 seconds later that the post is captured. Then scroll up to the top and hit the "recent posts" selection to bring you out of the editor. All before it times out. 95% of the time this prevents duplicates. Sometimes duplicates happen no matter what you try. The forum is broken no matter what you do.
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 27/01/2025 6:24 pm
