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Sending program change from montage

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I want to send program change from montage to another keyboard but I do not want to PLAY that keyboard from the montage .

I have created a test performance and successfully accomplished this using part number 16 to send the program change . The reason I used part 16 is because I do not want to sacrifice any parts 1-8.

However, When I set this up in the actual performance that I want to use to send program change, the program change works but when I play the montage it also plays the second keyboard. I have gone over my settings several times and it appears to be set up the same as my test performance . Can you tell me what am I missing ? Thanks !

 
Posted : 27/08/2019 4:32 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Recommended reading: MONTAGE Zone Master FAQ

From that article:
HOW CAN I HAVE A MONTAGE PERFORMANCE RECALL AN EXTERNAL PROGRAM BUT THEN NOT HAVE MONTAGE TRIGGER THAT EXTERNAL DEVICE VIA THE KEYS AND CONTROLLERS?

If your external device is controlled from a MONTAGE Performance Slot that does not have the KBD CTRL icon active, when the Performance is recalled, the Bank Select and Program Change message will be sent but the MONTAGE will not trigger that external device directly. Only those PARTS with KBD CTRL active sound from the MONTAGE keybed - unless you directly select that individual PART. Each Performance has sixteen slots, any of them can be designated to address your external device. You'd have to actively select it to transmit to it via the keys... so as long as KBD CTRL is not activated (green) and as long as you don't *select* that PART directly, only the settings you preset in the Zone Settings will be sent. Below, I have placed a Single "INIT AWM2" Part in Part slot 8, naming it "Ext Synth". By setting the Zone "Int Sw" = Off, I can use this slot exclusively for the external synth setup:

You can actually use any unoccupied Part Slot to setup the External device. Above, the first seven PARTS are under KBD CTRL (Keyboard Control), meaning those 7 PARTS are treated as one by the MONTAGE keyboard. In Part Slot 8, (no KBD CTRL) I have configured a ZONE setup to transmit Out to the "Ext Synth" (highly recommended that you identify the slot by naming it appropriately). When the Performance is recalled, any Zone setup for the external synth is automatically sent, and the keys of the MONTAGE will only address that external synth if you were to select PART 8 directly (by directly pressing [PART SELECT 8]). Below, a look at an example Zone Settings for controlling the “Ext Synth”:

The Zone Switch for Part 8 is set to ON. The "dummy" sound placed in PART 8 is completely bypassed because the INT SW = OFF. The Bank Select, Program Change and Volume/Expression functions are activated - the Bank Select and Program Change commands will be sent when the Performance is recalled. By setting the "MIDI SEND" function ON, I can send new Bank and Program messages from the MONTAGE while on this screen. I can also control the Volume of the External Synth, if I need to... either from this screen or with COMMON FADER 8. If you would rather not have the Volume Control from the MONTAGE you can simply turn OFF the "Vol/Exp" option completely.

 
Posted : 27/08/2019 11:20 am
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Thanks Phil for your quick response. That is good reading and is the very article I used to set this up.

In your example you use PART 8 with KEYBOARD CONTROL off. I have used PART 16 which of course has no KEYBOARD Control. But the Montage keyboard is still triggering the sound of the 2nd keyboard, which I do not want. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think it was even possible to trigger another keyboard with PARTS 9-16. Unless that Part 9-16 was specifically selected.

 
Posted : 27/08/2019 12:40 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

...the Montage keyboard is still triggering the sound of the 2nd keyboard, which I do not want. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think it was even possible to trigger another keyboard with PARTS 9-16.

Any Part slot, 1-16, can trigger any external device, if you set it up to do so.

The difference is this: if the Part has KBD CTRL *inactive*, then the only way it will trigger sound from the external device is if you *select* that Part slot directly.

To avoid *selecting* that Part slot, make sure your cursor highlight is in a COMMON area. What that means is, the cursor highlight should be in the HOME position (highlighting the Performance Name), or it should be selecting any one of the KBD CTRL’d Parts.

If you follow the lighted front panel... the upper [COMMON] button is lit — it will light when you are in the [PERFORMANCE (HOME)] position.
Just to the right of the upper [COMMON] button, (row 1) are the [PART SELECT 1-8] buttons. If you press any one of those that is linked by KBD CTRL you will be playing all the Parts linked by KBD CTRL. (They are linked). If you light a Part not linked by KBD CTRL, you are playing/triggering that one *selected* Part, alone.

If you are using Part slot #16... which can never be linked via KBD CTRL, to avoid triggering it, simply avoid *selecting* it.
What MIDI channel number is external device set to Receive?
Where is your cursor highlight?

Let us know.

 
Posted : 27/08/2019 12:58 pm
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EXTERNAL keyboard receiving on midi channel 2
Montage transmitting on midi channel 2

Ok here's what is working for me.

I needed to go to each Part 1-8 and turn the zone ON with midi channel set to OFF. Seems to be working as I intended. Does this sound correct to you ?

Strange thing is, in the TEST PERFORMANCE I set up also using Part 16 to transmit PC it works as intended and I did not turn ZONE ON midi channel set to OFF for Part 1. Only difference in the test Performance and the actual Performance I have been working on is:

Test Performance has only one Keyboard Control part, #1
Actual Performance has two Keyboard Control parts #1&#2

Thanks for your help !!

 
Posted : 28/08/2019 12:15 am
Jason
Posts: 8238
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If you're using PART 2 then it will, without changing any configuration, transmit MIDI on Channel 2 when Channel 16 is NOT selected. So that could be bad if you do not want PART 2 to send messages to your external synth. That's likely why you need to set PART Zone ON for PART 2 and set the MIDI channel to either OFF or just something other than 2. It depends on what you want to happen.

Regardless how PARTs 1-2 are configured, PART 16 can always send MIDI to your external controller on MIDI Channel 2 - you just have to first -select- PART 16 to force Montage to only send to that PART's configured MIDI out channel. Any PART with keyboard control turned OFF will become a mono-PART when played. All other PARTs will be ignored for new notes stuck AFTER you select the PART with keyboard control off. If you're holding down notes from any other PART - those notes that are sounding from the other PART(s) will continue to sound until released (they are not cut short).

... so I don't think there's any need to turn PART level zone control ON for all PARTs - just manage what happens with the PART that matches the MIDI channel you're trying to send to your external synth (Channel 2 = PART 2).

Certainly, if you don't want MIDI traffic to be sent - then you can use zone control on all PARTs and turn MIDI channel to OFF. But that may be overboard depending on your goals.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 28/08/2019 4:19 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

EXTERNAL keyboard receiving on midi channel 2
Montage transmitting on midi channel 2

Ok here's what is working for me.

I needed to go to each Part 1-8 and turn the zone ON with midi channel set to OFF. Seems to be working as I intended. Does this sound correct to you ?

Strange thing is, in the TEST PERFORMANCE I set up also using Part 16 to transmit PC it works as intended and I did not turn ZONE ON midi channel set to OFF for Part 1. Only difference in the test Performance and the actual Performance I have been working on is:

Test Performance has only one Keyboard Control part, #1
Actual Performance has two Keyboard Control parts #1&#2

Thanks for your help !!

Zone Master should be used any time you are transmitting Out to an external device and you wish to intelligently control what goes Out via MIDI from the MONTAGE.

Remember, (and this is true of most any MIDI device...) it normally sends Out everything it would need to be captured so that when the data is played back to it, it can faithfully duplicate what you performed. If your KBD CTRL Parts are Parts 1 and 2, then the MONTAGE will use both Channels 1 and 2 as a normal thing.

In other words, you would need to capture both channels 1 and 2 to an external recording device in order to have it playback exactly what you perform.
If you do nothing, you are already transmitting on Channels 1 and 2 for the MONTAGE from your two Part Performance.

It doesn’t seem you need to capture and playback your MONTAGE performance (useful primarily when Sequencing your MONTAGE sounds), so you will need/want to manage what goes Out via MIDI. You will need to setup to NOT transmit from these slots.

On your Performance.
Press [EDIT]
Press [PART SELECT 1]
Touch “Part Settings” > “Zone Settings” > turn the Zone Switch = On > leave the “INT SW” = ON, and the “Transmit Ch” = OFF
Press [PART SELECT 2] > turn Zone Switch = On > leave the “INT SW” = ON, and the “Transmit Ch” = OFF
This will prevent the MONTAGE from outputting data for itself on channels 1 and 2

Now select the Zone slot you are using for your external device...It can be any Part slot — any Part slot can be used to Transmit Out on any MIDI channel.
remember, there must be an internal MONTAGE Part assigned in the slot for the slot to be used... you will deactivate it internally... here’s how:
Set the Zone Switch = On
Set the INT SW = OFF (this deactivates the MONTAGE Part assigned to the Part slot
Set the “Transmit Ch” = 2 (this will communicate to your external device)
Set the other Zone Settings as you require... if you are not using Bank Select and Program Change, set them “Off”
If you are not presetting a Volume or Pan, set them “Off”
Additionally, touch “Zone Transmit” for your external Zone slot and configure what controllers you want to be transmitted to that external device. Example, if your internal sound is using the MW, you may or may not want your external device to respond to MW, and so on.

Prres [STORE]

Summary
Remember, if you are playing two internal MONTAGE Parts, it will as a normal thing, Transmit Out on two MIDI Channels, 1 and 2.
If your playing 8 internal MONTAGE Parts, it will as a normal thing, Transmit Out on eight MIDI Channels, 1 thru 8.
You External slot must have an internal MONTAGE Part assigned, which you can then deactivate (INT SW = OFF) now you can substitute the slot settings to control an external device.

 
Posted : 28/08/2019 5:20 am
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".. so I don't think there's any need to turn PART level zone control ON for all PARTs - just manage what happens with the PART that matches the MIDI channel you're trying to send to your external synth (Channel 2 = PART 2)."

@Jason, I see what you mean. Channel 2 is transmitting on midi channel 2 by default . The only reason I was turning the zone on and selecting midi channel off for all of the parts is in the UTILITY >ZONE I had selected SINGLE not MULTI. So I thought (mistakenly I guess) that all of the PARTS were transmitting on one single midi channel, in this case Midi 2. Well I guess I'm still confused on the SINGLE/MUTLI . But anyway everything is working as I needed to. Sending program change without playing external keyboard from Montage. Thanks for your help and further clarification

 
Posted : 29/08/2019 4:10 am
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@Bad Mister, thanks for the detailed walk-through . My current set up matches your instructions and everything is working as I needed it to . I understand that all of the PARTS 1-16 by default transmit on their respective midi channels 1-16.

In the UTILITY >ZONE I have midi set to SINGLE . Is this correct ?? The only thing I am doing with the midi is sending Program Change to one ext synth as I have described. Thanks !

 
Posted : 29/08/2019 4:28 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

No. If MIDI Zone Master = On, then using any Zone Settings in a Performance, automatically overrides the MIDI I/O Mode = Single.
Obviously, to Transmit Out on multiple channels, Single is automatically overridden as you are transmitting on potentially multiple MIDI channels.

The MIDI I/O Mode = Single will only apply in Performances where all the Part Zone Switches are OFF.

 
Posted : 29/08/2019 5:16 am
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

It may be time to step back and just get in tune with the fundamentals.

By default each "activated" PART 1-16 will transmit MIDI OUT on the same MIDI channel that matches the PART

Only PARTs 1-8 can activate more than one PART at a time. This is done using Keyboard Control and only PARTs 1-8 can toggle Keyboard Control ON.

Any PART (even 9-16) can be "activated" by selecting the PART. If you select a PART that has Keyboard Control OFF (PARTs 9-16 always have this OFF - the other PARTs may or may not have it OFF) - then only this PART will be activated and all other PARTs (even ones with Keyboard Control ON) will be deactivated. Meaning they will no longer transmit MIDI in response to pressing piano keys.

You can also "activate" multiple PARTs at a time by pressing the [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) button. What this does is de-selects ALL PARTs so none are selected. Therefore, the PARTs that respond to piano key presses will be the PART(s) with Keyboard Control ON. This can be up to 8 PARTs at once (all PARTs 1-8).

If you happen to select a PART that also happens to have Keyboard Control ON - then this will behave no differently than the previous case where no PARTs were selected. Still, all PART(s) that have Keyboard Control as ON will respond to piano key presses and send MIDI.

You can change the MIDI transmit channel for any PART by using zone control.

Alternatively, if you want your keyboard to send and receive on a single MIDI channel - you can use single channel MIDI mode. If this is your intent, you must not use zone control. Use of zone control with single-channel MIDI mode will defeat single-channel mode and "revert" back to multi-channel mode. This may be confusing if you place too much weight on the "Single Channel" MIDI mode setting alone.

When Zone Master is enabled in UTILITY and the current Performance has Zone Switches set to On, this setting overrides the MIDI I/O Mode "Single" setting. Activating the Zone Switch within a Performance (Zone enabled) automatically changes the status to address multiple devices.

It's most obvious that you've -selected- a PART by touching a single PART and you begin to edit that PART. But you can also select a PART without editing it. From the home screen by highlighting one of the PARTs - the selected PART will have a white box around it. You can use Montage's part select buttons or you can use cursor keys to select a PART. As a side-note: since MODX doesn't have the buttons to select PARTs, MODX has added touchscreen controls to select PARTs unique to MODX.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 29/08/2019 6:07 am
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