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Sequencing the movements of the Super Knob in an external sequencer

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Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

In your last article "MONTAGE MIDI - Zone Master FAQ " you seem to say that the movements of the Super Knob only affect the internal tone generator of the Montage.

¿Does it mean that´s not possible to sequence in an external sequencer (like Cubase) the movements of the Super Knob due, although it will transmit some MIDI data thru the OUT MIDI port, when returning thru the MIDI IN port, this data will not produce the same effect in the tone generator as if it would be sent directly to the tone generator by the local control?

 
Posted : 01/06/2018 7:18 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Maybe not. I noticed that assignable knobs do not appear to respond to external properly formed MIDI messages. I wish this was possible because there are times I'd like indirect movement of these controllers from the outside.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 01/06/2018 8:11 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Does it mean that´s not possible to sequence in an external sequencer (like Cubase) the movements of the Super Knob due, although it will transmit some MIDI data thru the OUT MIDI port, when returning thru the MIDI IN port, this data will not produce the same effect in the tone generator as if it would be sent directly to the tone generator by the local control?

No, it does not mean that at all.

What is meant is when you are controlling a Performance made up of both internal and external devices (the article is about control Out via MIDI to external Synthesizers and modules... no mention of external Sequencers, like Cubase), the AssignKnobs can be assigned to internal parameters. Your external synth will see just the cc numbers 17-24.

I could have Part Assign Knob 1 doing “Insert A EQ band5 Gain” internally
That same knob seen by your external module will be cc17
What that does to your external synth module is up to that synth module

But if you were to record that cc17 to an external Sequencer, it will act as an EQ change for the MONTAGE, when you play it back to MONTAGE.

It will not EQ your external synth. That’s easy enough to understand, no?

As the article explains if you want the Assign Knobs and Super Knob to Control your external device same as it does internal Parts, you should connect the Output of that device to the A/D Inputs of the MONTAGE. The A/D Input Part can be controlled in a similar fashion to internal MONTAGE sounds. You can apply Insert Effects, you can control those Insertion Effects, you can morph between internal and external synth sounds, etc., etc., etc.

If you have a question about using a Sequencer, know that every move you make on the MONTAGE is output as a MIDI message that can be documented and played back to the MONTAGE to accurately reproduce your performance!

You can record the Super Knob to your Sequencer. You can set it to Output it’s data as either System Exclusive Data, or you can select a Control Change number (which will be Output on MIDI CHannel 1).

The default is cc95. When recording Super Knob movement to your Sequencer you will see cc95 on MIDI channel 1 - like any standard MIDI message you can record and play it back as usual.

 
Posted : 01/06/2018 8:47 pm
Joe
 Joe
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

Maybe not. I noticed that assignable knobs do not appear to respond to external properly formed MIDI messages. I wish this was possible because there are times I'd like indirect movement of these controllers from the outside.

?? I have no problem controlling both Common and Part Assign knobs via MIDI. Super Knob also, easy as per BM response.

 
Posted : 02/06/2018 8:08 am
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you for you reply is very clear, i have one more question:

When the knobs, faders & Super Knob send MIDI Control Changes and when they send System Exclusive?

 
Posted : 02/06/2018 2:45 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZsTl8AKLgLIJ:https://www.yamahasynth.com/resources/montage-midi-zone-master-and-i-o-modes

Article explains that when SysEx CC is set to "OFF", SysEx is used instead of CC.
When Scene CC is set to "OFF", SysEx is used instead of CC

Not every knob/slider/button that sends SysEx has a configuration setting to force it to send CC instead. There are knobs that tweak non-standard (per MIDI CC table) parameters - so these generate SysEx messages. This applies to faders as well.

This is something put together a while back (by Michael Trigoboff):
Source: https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/slider-and-knob-midi-output/oldest

There are other threads which run through the same general material.

When I was searching through these messages to post links here - I ran across something that reminded me of the "I wish" limitation I made earlier in the thread. I didn't really give an example - and it doesn't quite match the OP's question. I was responding "off the cuff" - but I believe what I was thinking of was wishing PART assignable knobs would SEND CC values whens indirectly moved by the global (common) assignable knobs and/or Superknob. There was a comment by BM in a previous thread that mentions these will only send messages when "directly" spun -- which I now understand due to recent attempts means they will not send messages when indirectly spun (like superknob/common assignable linkages). I can understand why this was done -- to cut down on MIDI flood -- and that if you "play back" just the superknob (as AN example) -- the system doesn't need all the chain reactions of messages because they would be redundant to the superknob. Just record the primary source and let the programming take care of the downstream movement. That's fine for internal usage - but driving external gear it may be useful to allow documenting even the chain reaction movement. A mode similar to being able to document either just the ARP trigger notes - or the entire content of the ARP output.

... again, not really directly related to the OP's concern -- but sparked something "in the ballpark" in my earlier response.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 04/06/2018 6:34 am
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