This is the information you gave in order for me to try to reproduce your issue:

add at preset existing program a new part 8 to recall external program the montage behavior is wrong and midi go in block still recalling the same program; if (in the same program that cause problem) I exchange part 1 of preset program with new part 8 that only send midi message no problem it happen.

I cannot recreate your issue with such little information. Notice how my previous message at least had key MIDI configuration menu settings such as PART-level zone, channel, MSB/LSB+PN, etc. ; and also global "advanced"/MIDI settings. No, I did not include every parameter - but enough of the key parameters to outline most of the MIDI configuration to reproduce the test. When I was basing the performance off of a preset - I gave the preset name. I also outlined full cable connectivity as well as the key configuration on the downstream (external) hardware in terms of MIDI receive channels (CH1=upper manual, CH2=lower manual).

It would be best for you to download the X7B using Montage Connect and post for every configuration you have an issue with. I think thus far, the count is up to about 5 different performances. Your labeling as "M1", "M2", etc. is fine for documentation purposes which is why I copied the naming convention - except mine are lowercase "m1", "m2". When you send the X7B - it will have your name included inside the file.

Before having sufficient information - I have to believe that the problem you are encountering is due to improper setup although this is all I can possibly conclude with so little information on configuration details.

Jason wrote:

This is the information you gave in order for me to try to reproduce your issue:

add at preset existing program a new part 8 to recall external program the montage behavior is wrong and midi go in block still recalling the same program; if (in the same program that cause problem) I exchange part 1 of preset program with new part 8 that only send midi message no problem it happen.

I cannot recreate your issue with such little information. Notice how my previous message at least had key MIDI configuration menu settings such as PART-level zone, channel, MSB/LSB+PN, etc. ; and also global "advanced"/MIDI settings. No, I did not include every parameter - but enough of the key parameters to outline most of the MIDI configuration to reproduce the test. When I was basing the performance off of a preset - I gave the preset name. I also outlined full cable connectivity as well as the key configuration on the downstream (external) hardware in terms of MIDI receive channels (CH1=upper manual, CH2=lower manual).

It would be best for you to download the X7B using Montage Connect and post for every configuration you have an issue with. I think thus far, the count is up to about 5 different performances. Your labeling as "M1", "M2", etc. is fine for documentation purposes which is why I copied the naming convention - except mine are lowercase "m1", "m2". When you send the X7B - it will have your name included inside the file.

Before having sufficient information - I have to believe that the problem you are encountering is due to improper setup although this is all I can possibly conclude with so little information on configuration details.

Yes Jason I will do as soon I can.
But please, the things that I wrote you it is very basic. I try to explain (I’m answere you from smartphone)
Take any preset program of montage that you want, add part 8 with setted (on zone setting) only program and control change on midi channel 11 to recall program number 21 of external gear and save it with M5 name. In my cases, this kind of program generate a not correct function of montage, in terms that after first time that I select M5 program, if I select after that any other montage program (also preset of montage without any zone setting for midi control of external gear), montage still recalling anytime program 21 of external gear. That’s incredible.
After that if I take the same program M5 and I exchange part 1 with part 8 so that now the part that send midi message at external gear is in position 1 (part 1) of M5 program and I save M5 with this new configuration every things work fine, and the midi message are sent only in the time I select M5 program; in this case if I select other montage program (preset or not) that doesn’t have any midi message in the zone setting, no midi message are sent (as it is ritgh).
I hope that now the explanation is clear.

Ok, let me attempt to translate

1) "Take any preset program [sic: should be performance - but I understand] that you want"

Translation: I'll pick preset "CFX + FM EP" because that's the first PERFORMANCE preset under [CATEGORY SEARCH] for "All" on my board. I can press [CATEGORY SEARCH] one more time to switch to the "Preset" filter just to be sure - but I know I have not saved any user PERFORMANCE as "CFX + FM EP".

And some extra double-checking on my end (unrelated to any "translation"):

Just to double-check there's no "funny business" I use the touchscreen to press on the PERFORMANCE name/title (in big font) form the (HOME) screen and then use the touchscreen to select "Properties" and note that Bank source is shown as "Preset" and MSB/LSB+PN=63/64+001. The data list confirms that 63/64+001 is the first "Performance (Multi Part) Preset [bank] 1" and PN=001 is the first program number within this bank. Probably overly verbose - but I think it is instructive to relate the MSB/LSB+PN to the data list documentation and spell out how the "properties" information on performances is useful for checking that what you load is really loading what you intend.

2) "add part 8"

Translation: use the touchscreen to press the "[+]" from the [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) screen for PART 8 (the far-right [+]). -- Commentary: This will leave part #7 empty - but maybe this is good to test since my previous tests did not have an empty slot between the "MIDI control" PART and the rest of the parts. /End of Commentary --

** Note that you did not say what PART from the "Part8 - Category Search" you populated. I'm going to pick "Init Normal (AWM2)" because we are using this to just send MIDI - so the name will not imply there is any sound coming out of PART8. This may not be what you did - and who knows if this matters or not. I would say not - but if you found a hard-to-reproduce bug (which I am doubting, but cannot possibly start to reproduce without exact setup) then maybe it matters which PART you select as the starting point for PART8

3) " ... part 8 with setted (on zone setting) only program and control change on midi channel 11 to recall program number 21 of external gear "

Translation:
a) [PERFORMANCE] (HOME)
b) Touchscreen (TS): press PART8, popup menu appears on left-hand side - touch Press "Edit"
c) TS: Select menu "Part Settings" -> "Zone Settings"
NOTE: it is already setup previously that the keyboard configuration has the Zone Master set to ON or else the "Zone Settings" will not be available.
d) TS: Press "Zone" as the Init PART defaults to Zone=OFF - this will turn Zone to ON
e) More options appear - TS: touch "Int SW" and turn it OFF so Montage does not sound the Init AWM2 part for PART8 which would be a velocity insensitive piano sound.
f) TS: Touch "Transmit Ch" and change setting from OFF to Ch11, then press the [ENTER] button
g) TS: Bank Select and Pgm Change default to "On" which is correct - change to "On" if this is not matching. Change "Vol/Exp" and "Pan" to "Off" by touching these which will change the green "On" box to a grey "Off" box.
h) TS: MIDI bank MSB and LSB default to 000 for both. I am assuming this is OK. Change Program Number to 21 by touching "MIDI Pgm Num" and then rotating the DATA DIAL clockwise until value is "021". Can also double-press the same area and manually type in a value as an optional method of modifying this value
i) TS: MIDI Send - I've been leaving this as OFF although I haven't yet sorted out how this makes a difference yet. The documentation states that if this is "ON" then it will follow the On/Off switches of sending (transmitting) Volume or Bank or Pan or Program number MIDI out MIDI out. I've found if I set the volume or bank or pan or program number to OFF - that this is what controls sending the information out MIDI OUT and the "MIDI Send" does not cause any difference in the data sent. This is because on the screen where "MIDI Send" is set - turning off any one of the 4 parameters (Volume/Bank/Pan/Program No) also switches off the transmit "control box" switch for the given parameter - and this will take effect weather the "MIDI Send" is on or off. I also found that when a performance is recalled that has "MIDI Send" to OFF but the volume (as an example - all 4 parameters work similarly) under this current touchscreen I am referencing is set to "ON" and has a value - that the value is sent out MIDI OUT even though "MIDI Send" is OFF. Maybe this is something that was fixed in later firmware.

** Set "MIDI Send" to ON just to be safe - although because my earlier experiments had this OFF - it's something to check if something doesn't act like I expect.

4) "and save it with M5 name"
Translation: Press [STORE] button, TS: press "Save As New Performance" and select filename "m5" (I'm using lowercase) - but similar names to match your designation.

NOTE: when I select this performance from another performance, I see the following MIDI output from Montage:

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
0416F91E 1 -- BA 00 00 11 --- CC: Bank MSB
0416F91E 1 -- BA 20 00 11 --- CC: Bank LSB
0416F91F 1 -- CA 14 -- 11 --- PC: Reed Organ

So any downstream MIDI devices should receive the bank and program change messages on Channel 11 (decimal). The program change as "14" is hex for decimal 20 which is the zero-based equivalent for "Program No." as "21" since Program Number (No.) translates to MIDI Program Change value +1. basically, Program Number starts its numbering at "1" and the MIDI Program Change value starts its numbering at "0" which is why "Program Number" is one value higher than the corresponding MIDI program change value on the MIDI bus. You may have to adjust this if your downstream hardware documentation lists its values in the MIDI Program Change (zero-based) format.

When I "switch away" from "m5" to the previous performance which is "m3" - which "m3" has no MIDI zone settings - I see no MIDI activity. No bank or program change messages on any channel.

*** MIDI setup change from my previous entry

In order to test this "Live" with my hardware, I am going to have to set my Clonewheel (Voce V3) MIDI rack hardware to respond to Midi Channel 11 instead of Midi Channel 1. So that's what I do - I go into the Voce V3 hardware and edit the MIDI receive channel for the upper manual from Ch1 and change it to Ch11. I also set my lower manual to respond to MIDI channel 12 so that part #2 did not make the lower manual make sounds as Part 2 is sending note on/off information to Midi Ch 2. With the lower manual set to CH 12 - there is now no MIDI data that makes the Voce play sounds other than Part 8.

More testing:

When I switch away from "m5" to any other performance - nothing strange happens. When I switch into "m5" from any other performance - the Voce V3 is properly set to program #21 which shows "PROG B. AUGER / #21" on the LCD screen of my Voce rack unit. I can manually adjust the program on the rack unit so it is different than #21 - and I see that when I recall the Performance "m5" on Montage, the program number is changed to #21 as would be expected.

So already, your assertion: "In my cases, this kind of program generate a not correct function of montage, in terms that after first time that I select M5 program, if I select after that any other montage program (also preset of montage without any zone setting for midi control of external gear), montage still recalling anytime program 21 of external gear. That’s incredible."

Is not true. If I select a PERFORMANCE that does not have any MSB/LSB+PN switching then the program number will of course be left at program #21 because there is nothing to change it. Also, for me if I select "m1" - this also does not change the program from #21 to the program number I programmed for my own "m1" because the MIDI channel was set to Ch1 for M1 sending program changes. I edit m1 to send out Ch11 instead of Ch1 ([STORE] / overwrite).

When I switch from anything to "m5" - "m5" calls up program #21 on the Voce. When I switch to "m1" (modified for ch11) now program #1 is recalled and the volume is set to 0 (as is noted on my previous post for how "m1" is configured). If I switch back to "m5" - then program #21 is recalled. It doesn't change the volume and has volume control (transmit) turned off - so I must raise the volume after selecting "m1" in order to hear my organ play. Regardless, the bank switching is working as expected. In fact, everything is working exactly as I would want it to with these settings.

I simply cannot reproduce what you have expressed as unexpected behavior.

You talk about switching to a performance without any MIDI zone settings and that somehow causing the program number to switch to #21. Remember if you have no MIDI zone settings - then the MSB/LSB+PN will not be transmitted and therefore will be "left alone" or, another way of saying this, "not changed". So recalling a performance with no zone settings will not cause a switch to program #21 -- it's just going to be left alone. If I manually switch (on the hardware) to a different setting other than #21 - when I switch to any performance (user or preset) which does not have MIDI zone settings setup - the program number stays at whatever program number I set the hardware to.

... also: I see no point in my testing swapping parts 1 and 8 since the configuration already works as expected using Part 8 as the external MIDI control PART.

.

Thanks Jason please find attached my program setting.
If you go to live set page 16 you can find 3 program (all with midi message setting to external gear but one that don't work right)
1) @NE5 - Hammond 1 (that work right)
2) M5 don't work (with part 8 as a new part to send midi message added ("+") at original "RD 1 gallery" montage preset program)
3) M5 work right (same that "M5 don't work" but with part 1 and part 8 exchanged so that now part 1 is the one that send midi message)

If you do this:
A) Select program "@NE5 - Hammond 1"
B) Select program "M5 work right"
C) Select program "@NE5 - Hammond 1"
...till now everyting work fine....now if you select:
D) Select program "M5 don't work"
E) Select program "@NE5 - Hammond 1" now it happen that montage still send to nord electro 5 the same command of "M5 don't work"

That's the problem

One limitation of the forum is lack of handling attachments with certain extensions. You need to ZIP the file(s) first - even if only one file - for the forum to accept your attachment. The other strange quirk is that after you attempt to upload - and it fails - I believe it automatically posts your message. So your failed attempt at attaching a file results in a post that is either a duplicate - or you add a post that says "here's the attachment that was meant for the last post".

Jason wrote:

One limitation of the forum is lack of handling attachments with certain extensions. You need to ZIP the file(s) first - even if only one file - for the forum to accept your attachment. The other strange quirk is that after you attempt to upload - and it fails - I believe it automatically posts your message. So your failed attempt at attaching a file results in a post that is either a duplicate - or you add a post that says "here's the attachment that was meant for the last post".

Jason do you have downloaded my file?
I refresh the page and the attached file it is there.....do you see it?

I see your updated post and will have to queue up looking at this tomorrow.

Andrea wrote:

Jason wrote:

One limitation of the forum is lack of handling attachments with certain extensions. You need to ZIP the file(s) first - even if only one file - for the forum to accept your attachment. The other strange quirk is that after you attempt to upload - and it fails - I believe it automatically posts your message. So your failed attempt at attaching a file results in a post that is either a duplicate - or you add a post that says "here's the attachment that was meant for the last post".

Jason do you have downloaded my file?
I refresh the page and the attached file it is there.....do you see it?

Hi Jason do you have tested the problem with the file that I posted here?
Bad Mister may you have a look too please?
Thanks
Andrea

I haven't yet - the schedule I had set for myself for "volunteer work" was difficult to meet with the holidays - understandably: family takes precedence. Also, as is the usual "arc" during the holidays - work has piled up so there is a deeper queue of day-job work to clear before I can attend to this. Hang in there. I'm happy you did get the file pushed out there.

I just "cracked open" your ZIP file and noticed it is an .X7U file. I'm not going to take a look at it because, by policy, I'll only use the .X7B format and modify my edit buffer instead of going through the backup process of my user data to get to your settings.

It should be a matter of installing Montage Connect and using the software to backup your performances that are part of the test to demonstrate failure to separate .X7B files - one per performance. Select the performance from category search, use Montage Connect to save an .X7B, then move to the next performance and save off the next .X7B and so on.

Then the handful of .X7B files can be zipped up into a single ZIP file.

Ok. I will do that. But Bedminster where are you disappeared? Maybe there is a bug in montage and there is a user with a problem and you don't care. No good.:(

Jason wrote:

I just "cracked open" your ZIP file and noticed it is an .X7U file. I'm not going to take a look at it because, by policy, I'll only use the .X7B format and modify my edit buffer instead of going through the backup process of my user data to get to your settings.

It should be a matter of installing Montage Connect and using the software to backup your performances that are part of the test to demonstrate failure to separate .X7B files - one per performance. Select the performance from category search, use Montage Connect to save an .X7B, then move to the next performance and save off the next .X7B and so on.

Then the handful of .X7B files can be zipped up into a single ZIP file.

Thanks Jason, here you are the file that you have asked.

Thanks. I do appreciate your accommodating my request. It may take a few days since I have the Montage packed away from a weekend performance - but should be back online soon.

I see BM is going the extra mile here (both in this thread and, more generally, all threads) - I wouldn't "write him off" yet. There are lots of requests here and BM is doing a great job of keeping his head above water. I guess that analogy leaves me open for some ribbing due to the existing water analogies around synth usage tasks.

Jason wrote:

Thanks. I do appreciate your accommodating my request. It may take a few days since I have the Montage packed away from a weekend performance - but should be back online soon.

I see BM is going the extra mile here (both in this thread and, more generally, all threads) - I wouldn't "write him off" yet. There are lots of requests here and BM is doing a great job of keeping his head above water. I guess that analogy leaves me open for some ribbing due to the existing water analogies around synth usage tasks.

OK Jason thanks.
No problem about time.