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I've been downloading a few performances from Soundmondo and all have been OK except for a few performances that contain arps. Some of these just don't work for me, a couple make no sound at all unless I switch the arp off on my Montage.
Am I doing something wrong?
Posted : 05/04/2022 6:39 am
A few possibilities:
1) Earlier firmware had a different count of arpeggios. Arpeggios have therefore changed number depending on firmware version and so there's a possibility that preset arpeggios in the soundmondo share are of a different firmware version than you currently have. I do not know if Soundmondo intelligently converts this auto-magically.
2) User arpeggios are not supported with Soundmondo. If the original Performance shared on Soundmondo had user arpeggios - then the result would be the arpeggios would be broken because user Arps are not transferred. If you let me know which soundmondo shares aren't working I can take a look at the bulk dump and let you know if they use user arps or not.
3) Something else ... There are a few more possibilities - but I won't run through those.
It'd be easier to start with an example Performance you direct me to and then I'll give the specific causes for what's going on.
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 05/04/2022 4:25 pm
Topic starter
Thanks for the reply.
There were quite a few that didn't work but one that I do remember is "MF ARPEGGIO x by Michael Feiner". I downloaded his performances that were featured in the email fine but this one doesn't work for me.
Posted : 05/04/2022 6:26 pm
MF Arpeggio I see uses only ARP #1 and the arpeggio used is a normal preset (#641) for Part 1 and similar ones for Parts 2, 3. Off the bat I don't see anything problematic as with the 1st 2 possibilities. I'll load this into my Montage and see what else I can find. Arps 2-8 are empty (OFF) so if you have the arp # set to any of those you may not hear anything with ARPs on.
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 05/04/2022 9:09 pm
Taking a second look - loading this into my instrument - I see Part 1 uses USER arpeggio #1, Part 2 uses USER arpeggio #2, and Part 3 uses USER arpeggio #4. All of which is invalid for a Soundmondo Performance due to lack of support for User Arpeggios. You have to get the MIDI files for these ARPs and create your own user ARPs placed in the right slots on your instrument (or edit the ARPs to match your new user ARPs) or get the author to send you an X[7,8]L or X[7,8]U (an X[7,8]A would work too but is drastic) so that these Library or User files would contain the user arpeggios.
I happen to have user arpeggios in each of these slots but they're the wrong ones. User Arp #1 and #2 are control ARPs for me (no notes) and Arp #4 is I believe only half notes - not the right thing.
My previous message claiming arp #641 was a mathematical error. It should have been Arp # 10241 which is the start of the USER area. My mistake.
Therefore, this particular Performance falls under this category:
2) User arpeggios are not supported with Soundmondo. If the original Performance shared on Soundmondo had user arpeggios - then the result would be the arpeggios would be broken because user Arps are not transferred.
Soundmondo could be more intelligent and warn both the uploader and downloader that the Performance contains user data that is not included. And place a "yellow bang" (exclamation mark) on the icons of such Performances to quickly indicate they are incomplete. It's not so easy to determine that the ARPs are user arps since the individual display doesn't show the bank. You have to do some bit of detective work to determine this which may or may not be limited if you have zero User Arps.
The hard way is looking at the bulk dump data and seeing if the Arpeggio Number is (hex, 2 byte value) 0x50 0x00 or above. Looking for:
f0 43 00 7f 1c 00 60 02 31 60 00 (for Montage Part 1) - other Parts are 31 6p 00 where p=Part#-1 (part number minus 1).
... then look for the next "F7" byte which is the end of the message.
... then work your way backwards. Last byte is a checksum - skip that - then every 3 bytes backwards from there belong to each arpeggio number. Last one is Arp 8 and 8th one from the end is Arp 1. 3 bytes where the 1st byte is reserved and next two are the MSB/LSB of the arpeggio number. 7 bit values so take bit 0 (lowest bit) of the MSB byte and place it on the upper bit of the LSB byte. Then shift right the MSB. Now the value is converted to an 8-bit 2-byte value from 7-bit encoding. Not user friendly, but that's a way.
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 06/04/2022 10:02 pm
Here's a summary of other Montage category Soundmondo Performances that contain user or library arpeggios. The user or library arps are listed first then the Performance name (and number) are shown later.
P#08 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030497-Crazy_SEAL_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 12288 (Library 8, #1)
MONTAGE-088901-Piano.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#08 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030473-One_U2_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 12471 (Library 8, #184)
P#01 ARP #02 ==> 12472 (Library 8, #185)
P#01 ARP #03 ==> 12473 (Library 8, #186)
P#01 ARP #04 ==> 12474 (Library 8, #187)
P#01 ARP #05 ==> 12475 (Library 8, #188)
MONTAGE-067437-ONE_OF_THESE_DAYS_gw.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#06 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030498-Resiste_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10241 (USER #2)
MONTAGE-080592-CONTINUO_PAD_C.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#03 ARP #01 ==> 10818 (Library 2, #67)
MONTAGE-036355-FM_MOD_CHALLENGE_4.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#04 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-040706-Shine_On_-_Goerge_Duke.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 12288 (Library 8, #1)
MONTAGE-082887-Piano_Nord_con_Pad_Pegado.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 12042 (Library 7, #11)
P#01 ARP #02 ==> 12044 (Library 7, #13)
P#01 ARP #03 ==> 12045 (Library 7, #14)
P#01 ARP #04 ==> 12046 (Library 7, #15)
P#01 ARP #05 ==> 12047 (Library 7, #16)
MONTAGE-023837-DKS_Cinematic_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#08 ARP #01 ==> 10240 (USER #1)
MONTAGE-027020-Africa_brass_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 11959 (Library 6, #184)
MONTAGE-039377-Swirls2.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10796 (Library 2, #45)
P#01 ARP #02 ==> 10797 (Library 2, #46)
P#01 ARP #03 ==> 10798 (Library 2, #47)
P#01 ARP #04 ==> 10799 (Library 2, #48)
P#01 ARP #05 ==> 10800 (Library 2, #49)
MONTAGE-031345-Trance_bassline_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#02 ARP #01 ==> 10240 (USER #1)
P#02 ARP #02 ==> 11021 (Library 3, #14)
P#02 ARP #03 ==> 11022 (Library 3, #15)
P#02 ARP #04 ==> 11023 (Library 3, #16)
P#02 ARP #05 ==> 11028 (Library 3, #21)
MONTAGE-039462-In_The_Air_Tonight_CP_p_Collins.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10242 (USER #3)
MONTAGE-080598-CONTINUO_PAD_C_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#05 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030499-Le_coureur_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10246 (USER #7)
MONTAGE-080597-CONTINUO_PAD_F.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#02 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-053438-Chandelier_-Sia.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10244 (USER #5)
MONTAGE-080591-CONTINUO_PAD_D_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10240 (USER #1)
MONTAGE-080599-CONTINUO_PAD_A.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
MONTAGE-038926-Dancing_on_the_ceiling.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10243 (USER #4)
P#01 ARP #03 ==> 10243 (USER #4)
MONTAGE-036298-FMX_MOD_CHALLENGE.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#06 ARP #01 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
MONTAGE-091197-Ruja_o_Leao.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
MONTAGE-080596-CONTINUO_PAD_F_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-080589-CONTINUO_PAD_G_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10240 (USER #1)
P#01 ARP #02 ==> 10241 (USER #2)
P#01 ARP #03 ==> 10242 (USER #3)
P#01 ARP #04 ==> 10243 (USER #4)
P#01 ARP #05 ==> 10244 (USER #5)
P#01 ARP #06 ==> 10245 (USER #6)
P#01 ARP #07 ==> 10246 (USER #7)
P#02 ARP #01 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
P#02 ARP #02 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
P#02 ARP #03 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
P#02 ARP #04 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
P#02 ARP #05 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
P#02 ARP #06 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
P#02 ARP #07 ==> 10247 (USER #8)
P#03 ARP #01 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
P#03 ARP #02 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
P#03 ARP #03 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
P#03 ARP #04 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
P#03 ARP #05 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
P#03 ARP #06 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
P#03 ARP #07 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
P#05 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
P#05 ARP #02 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
P#05 ARP #03 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
P#05 ARP #04 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
P#05 ARP #05 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
P#05 ARP #06 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
P#05 ARP #07 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-065443-Spin_Me_MT.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#02 ARP #02 ==> 10244 (USER #5)
P#03 ARP #01 ==> 10242 (USER #3)
P#03 ARP #02 ==> 10243 (USER #4)
MONTAGE-027167-Thriller_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10241 (USER #2)
P#02 ARP #01 ==> 10242 (USER #3)
P#03 ARP #01 ==> 10244 (USER #5)
MONTAGE-080024-MF_ARPEGGIO_x.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10245 (USER #6)
MONTAGE-080588-CONTINUO_PAD_E.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#05 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-050928-Rue_de_la_paix_-_Zazie.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#03 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030496-Dont_Stand_So_Closed.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10243 (USER #4)
MONTAGE-080595-CONTINUO_PAD_D.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#05 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-037784-Never_To_Much_-_Luther_Vandross.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#08 ARP #01 ==> 10256 (USER #17)
P#08 ARP #02 ==> 10256 (USER #17)
P#08 ARP #03 ==> 10256 (USER #17)
P#08 ARP #04 ==> 10256 (USER #17)
P#08 ARP #05 ==> 10256 (USER #17)
MONTAGE-070838-Worship_piano+drone.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#07 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030763-True_Colors_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#07 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030495-Where_the_streets_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#04 ARP #01 ==> 10818 (Library 2, #67)
P#04 ARP #02 ==> 10821 (Library 2, #70)
MONTAGE-023992-Modular_Kit_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10242 (USER #3)
P#02 ARP #01 ==> 10241 (USER #2)
MONTAGE-033612-Nothin_s_Gonna_Stop_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10244 (USER #5)
P#02 ARP #01 ==> 10241 (USER #2)
P#03 ARP #01 ==> 10240 (USER #1)
P#08 ARP #01 ==> 10242 (USER #3)
MONTAGE-066899-neverending_story.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#07 ARP #01 ==> 10250 (USER #11)
MONTAGE-086653-Flho_do_Deus_Vivo_NS.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#04 ARP #02 ==> 10241 (USER #2)
MONTAGE-069526-stop_the_cav.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#03 ARP #01 ==> 11840 (Library 6, #65)
P#03 ARP #02 ==> 11841 (Library 6, #66)
P#03 ARP #03 ==> 11842 (Library 6, #67)
P#03 ARP #04 ==> 11843 (Library 6, #68)
P#03 ARP #05 ==> 11844 (Library 6, #69)
MONTAGE-026514-Stepping_Synth_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#05 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-057520-Envole_moi_Moessieur.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 11959 (Library 6, #184)
MONTAGE-039376-Swirls.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#06 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-030491-Maniac_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10248 (USER #9)
MONTAGE-080590-CONTINUO_PAD_G.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10250 (USER #11)
MONTAGE-080594-CONTINUO_PAD_A_.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10251 (USER #12)
MONTAGE-080593-CONTINUO_PAD_B.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
P#01 ARP #01 ==> 10249 (USER #10)
MONTAGE-055700-Nue_-_Clara_Luciani.syx .. ABOVE .. (USER OR Library ARP detected)
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 07/04/2022 8:28 am
Topic starter
Excellent. Many thanks for your replies - at least I know that it's nothing that I'm doing wrong 🙂
I agree that Soundmondo could be a bit more intelligent and warn users. As well as the user data issue, the first time I used Soundmondo I thought that it wasn't working properly until I finally realised that the performances that were listed were for a few different instruments and I was trying to sync a YC performance to my Montage! It allows you to go through the motions of doing the sync but obviously the performance does not come across to the Montage.
Yes I felt very silly when I realised I'd wasted a good 30 minutes trying to sync some performances from HaPe that weren't actually for the Montage 🙂
Posted : 07/04/2022 10:12 am
Yes - it's "easy" if you're able to write your own software to analyze the bulk dump registers. Otherwise, you're sometimes in the dark. I say this to be somewhat critical of the usability - not to infer that users should be more sophisticated.
Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R
Posted : 07/04/2022 3:08 pm
Topic starter
Thanks. I'm trying to avoid any form of coding at the moment as I've just retired after doing more than 35 years of commercial software development and I've had enough of it 😉 🙂
I might look at doing something in a few months time though.
Posted : 08/04/2022 8:08 am
