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The same program Change codes result in different Performances?

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 Mark
Posts: 28
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Hello!
I'm looking for some help. I used SetList Maker on an iPad to send program change messages to a Montage and a Nord Stage 3. Each is on a separate MIDI channel. I use the Yamaha MD-BT01 to communicate with the Montage.

I've set up a "patch" in SetList maker that sends the MSB/LSB/Program# message to the Montage and Nord. I use the same Montage "patch" ("Tacky Brass") for several different songs in a set. But of the 4 songs that use the Yamaha "Tacky Brass" Performance (sending the same MSB/LSB/Program#), I get 3 different Performances. The Performance all have the same MSB/LSB/P# (using the properties lookup on the Montage), but in one case, I get the Tacky Brass; in another, I get the Tacky Brass + Piano; in the third I get the Tacky Brass + Piano + a second, different piano.

Any suggestions or insights?

Thanks

 
Posted : 09/05/2018 11:33 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Sorry, but while you provided the mystery, you've left out the critical information that may help to solve it: The messages you sent, the location the Performance you wish to recall resides in, and to what MIDI channel you set the MONTAGE.

Recognize that without setting the MONTAGE properly, it can and does occupy often eight MIDI channels.... in other words, it can receive Bank Select and Program Changes on any of the first eight MIDI Channels. Sounds to me like messages for your other keyboard are also affecting the MONTAGE... and that perhaps you have not set the MONTAGE to any specific MIDI channel (just a guess, because the critical info is missing).

Add to the list, the firmware version of your MONTAGE..

Let us know.

 
Posted : 09/05/2018 1:31 pm
 Mark
Posts: 28
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Greetings and than you for your quick response.

I do not have access to my Montage right now, so I cannot verify setup. I can check in about 10 hours.

SetList Maker is transmitting on channels 1, 3, 5 and 7 to different keyboards. I believe that the Montage is transmitted on channel 5. I remember reading other posts about the Montage's ability to change Performances (sub-Performances?) independently. Say I create a Performance made of a piano, strings, brass and chimes. If I understand correctly, each of those (piano, strings, brass & chimes can be changed independently from eachother if they receive MIDI messages on separate MIDI channels. Do I have the correct?

Can you point me to the section in the owner's manual or reference manual that will help me understand how to keep all of the program changes on one channel?

Thank you!

 
Posted : 09/05/2018 1:46 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

MSB/LSB Bank Select
PC Program Change

In MIDI, a Bank is defined to have a maximum of 128 programs. So there are many sets of Banks -each with 128 locations.
The MSB/LSB numbers determine what is changed. Again, assuming you have firmware 2.00.x

MSB/LSB that begin with MSB 64 will recall an entire Performance (when message sent on Basic Receive Channel)
MSB/LSB that begin with MSB 63 will recall a Part within the current Performance (channel-by-channel)
MSB/LSB that begin with MSB 62 will recall an entire Performance that is linked with the currently active Live Set.

Please see the DATA LIST (PDF) booklet ("montage_en_dl_g0" - the "g0" is the latest version)... Page 187-188

How you have your MIDI I/O Mode Setup will determine if you are set to address the MONTAGE as you require... let us know when you get to your MONTAGE.

When MONTAGE is in Multi Mode it will occupy channels 1-8 as its Basic Receive Channels/Keyboard Transmit Channels.
When MONTAGE is in Single Mode, you select a single Input/Output Channel as its Basic Receive Channel/Keyboard Transmit Channel.

 
Posted : 09/05/2018 2:42 pm
Jason
Posts: 8219
Illustrious Member
 

I'm not sure what the desired result is, but if you elect to use MSB/LSB+PC for a "(Single Part)" preset - then this is only going to change a single PART within the currently loaded Performance and will not change the Performance. The PART changed is going to match the MIDI channel used to transmit the SYSEX. If you want to change out the entire Performance - then use the "(Multi Part)" preset LSB/MSB+PC.

This is in reference to the table in the montage_en_dl_g0.PDF data list PDF.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 09/05/2018 3:14 pm
 Mark
Posts: 28
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks everyone for your help. With your input and questions, I think I have solved the immediate problem.
I am running firmware 2.00.3

The Montage was configured:
Midi Receive Channel = All
Midi I/O mode = Multi
Device = 1

I now have the Montage set up as follows:
Midi Receive Channel = 1 (this matches the configuration of Setlist Maker for the Montage, that is, channel 1).
Midi I/O mode = “SINGLE.”
Device = 1.
Bank Select and Program Change are set to “ON.”

Now when I send the message from Setlist Maker for a “Tacky Brass,” that’s the all I get.

I’ve created a group of Performances made up of single and multi Part Performances from the Presets and from my Library (the library is made up of parts from the MOTIF XF fully loaded set). As I combined these various parts into a layered and split new Performance, I stored the Performance into the User memory. What I’ve been trying to do is call up these custom Performances I’ve stored in the User section. What I was getting was more than my custom Performance. I was getting additional Parts added to my Performance. In regard to the preset Tacky Brass performance, I was getting additional parts added. Now that I’m in single mode, everything seems to me working as desired.

Thank you for your help.

 
Posted : 10/05/2018 2:10 am
Jason
Posts: 8219
Illustrious Member
 

To me, the "additional PARTs" added to what you want would be remnants from your current Performance. This is why I went down the path of advising using the MSB/LSB for Multi Part.

For firmware v2.0, say your user Performance is using the first user slot - you should be using:

MSB(Decimal)=64, LSB(Decimal)=32, PC=0

This is a multi-PART change.

The guess was you were using MSB(Decimal)=63, LSB(Decimal)=32, PC=0 ... which would be incorrect for what you're trying to do.

I normally send the Multi-PART changes into CH1 - but I believe these may respond omni (to any channel) and still work.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 10/05/2018 3:41 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I normally send the Multi-PART changes into CH1 - but I believe these may respond omni (to any channel) and still work.

When the MONTAGE is in MIDI I/O Mode = Multi it will Receive Multi-PART changes on channels 1-8; not just “any channel”, any channel 1 through 8.
When in MIDI I/O Mode = Single you select the one Channel, 1-16.

 
Posted : 10/05/2018 7:33 am
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