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Transfering Montage setup to MODX?

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 Mark
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Topic starter
 

I have a Montage 6 and I really like it. However, I need to lighten the load of equipment I move, so I’ve just purchased a MODX7. My understanding is that in most cases, I should be able to play the performances that I have created for the Montage on the MODX. I understand that there are some differences such as the polyphony on the FM-X engine and the size of available for user samples.
I do not have any custom samples.

So my question is, can I transfer the setup I have on my Montage over to the MODX? And if yes, what are those steps.
Thanks - Mark

 
Posted : 07/09/2019 3:26 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Yes. Save your MONTAGE data in a MONTAGE User File .X7U to a USB stick.
Move the USB stick over to the MODX.
Load your MONTAGE .X7U File to your MODX.

Same with any MONTAGE Library Files .X7L... these can be loaded via USB stick to your MODX.
MODX can translate the MONTAGE Files (this includes: Performances, Live Sets, Waveforms*, Arpeggios, Motion Sequences, Curves, MicroTunings) .... *MONTAGE has more Waveform memory. 1.75GB versus 1GB; Utility and Quick Setup templates are included in the User File format only; MONTAGE Backup Files .X7B are not transferable between models.

Any MONTAGE Songs must be saved as .mid Files to a USB stick, and moved to the MODX, individually.

Once you have moved MONTAGE User or Library Files to the MODX, you should make MODX versions of the data, .X8U and .X8L Files, respectively. Reason: the MODX can read its own File types significantly faster than it can read and translate MONTAGE data.

Extra Credit: MODX Files cannot be loaded directly to the MONTAGE. If you own both, do your serious programming on the MONTAGE.
However, if you do come up with a Performance on the MODX and you wish to move it to MONTAGE, use the iOS app Soundmondo to “Capture” the MODX program... then connect the iOS device to the MONTAGE and send it to the MONTAGE Edit Buffer. Press [STORE] to write it into the MONTAGE.

Thanks for the question.

 
Posted : 07/09/2019 3:48 pm
 Mark
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Topic starter
 

THANK YOU!

One follow up question - After the transfer, will the performance number be the same between the Montage and MODX? I use Set List Maker to set up all of my keyboards for each song. Will I need to program new numbers for the MODX or will the MODX look the same as the MONTAGE to things such as Set List Maker?

Thanks again - Mark

 
Posted : 07/09/2019 4:45 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

I would imagine so... (you are assuming I know something about how you are using Set List Maker)... I’d be surprised if it was aware of a difference.
Current situation your MONTAGE has 2,655 Factory Performances, your MODX has 2,143 Factory Performances.

 
Posted : 07/09/2019 5:55 pm
 Mark
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Topic starter
 

Thank you.

Set list maker is just sending program changes. I'll give it a try. Thanks again.

Regards - Mark

 
Posted : 08/09/2019 6:21 pm
Stefan
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The program numbers did change for me when I tried it.

 
Posted : 08/09/2019 6:49 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Set list maker is just sending program changes. I'll give it a try.

But are you using LIVE SET locations? They have their own Bank Select and Program Changes... which will be identical in both MONTAGE and MODX.

 
Posted : 08/09/2019 7:12 pm
 Mark
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Topic starter
 

Well I'm making some progress, but I am a novice with the Montage, so please bear with me.

I've loaded MOTIF XF sounds and some of the Montage expanded sound libraries into my Montage.

I created a "User" file and a Library file from my Montage and loaded it into my MODX. But these added sounds did not seem to make the transition. And so now it seems that I have a group of User Performances that are trying to call up sounds from these sound libraries. The name of the sounds show up in the User Performances, but they are silent. Is there a tutorial out there that can help me understand what is going on?

Thanks - Mark

 
Posted : 12/09/2019 2:59 am
Jason
Posts: 7963
Illustrious Member
 

I've had some issues finding the other thread - but remember there were some limitations in saving Performances with custom samples if the original data was loaded from Motif XF save files. The suggestion had something to do with either the import function to use (voice vs. performance) or the load location (library vs. user). Phil can probably give the details for any limitations here -- as there may be some new information in light of later firmware revisions available.

... that said - if you had Motif X3? files - are you trying to load them on MODX by first loading them on the Montage - then saving an X7L (or X7U) - then loading this X7L/U file to MODX? I understand you could have some user modifications to these on your Montage - but why not load the X3? file(s) directly on MODX?

... same goes for the Montage Expanded set. Just load directly on MODX.

I'm assuming your Motif XF files work fine on Montage. That, at least, would rule out incompatibilities with the new engine (WXC, LPC incompatibilities) since both Montage and MODX would be equally incompatible (neither would work).

 
Posted : 12/09/2019 6:46 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

I created a "User" file and a Library file from my Montage and loaded it into my MODX. But these added sounds did not seem to make the transition. And so now it seems that I have a group of User Performances that are trying to call up sounds from these sound libraries. The name of the sounds show up in the User Performances, but they are silent. Is there a tutorial out there that can help me understand what is going on?

When you create a USER File from your MONTAGE it will save the following data from your instrument:
The contents of the following five Folders found by going to [UTILITY] > touch “Contents” > touch “Data Utility”
The “Arp” Folder, the “Live Set” Folder, the “Motion Seq” Folder, the “Performance” Folder and the “Waveform” Folder

When you say you created a Library File from your MONTAGE, this was possibly the unnecessary step that is throwing you off.
It is the nature of your LIBRARY File (.X7L) that we need to explore. Here’s why, it is extremely likely that you did not need to create the Library File. You should have just found the USB stick containing Library Files that you installed in your MONTAGE, and directly loaded them to your MODX. Creating a Library from Library data in the MONTAGE is more complex than you might be thinking and would only be necessary if you misplaced your original .X7L File

Say for example, one of those Libraries was the Bosendorfer data. There is no need to “create” a Library File from your MONTAGE, if you already have that file on a USB stick. You should just find the USB stick you used to install it on your MONTAGE and install it on your MODX.

Sure you could have used LIBRARY IMPORT to move the Bosendorfer Library to your MONTAGE’s User Bank, then made a new Library File from the MONTAGE’s USER Bank, but that would be like doing a complete 360... you would arrive with an exact duplicate of the original Bosendorfer Library File and be back where you started. That’s why I mention this was a possibly *unnecessary step*.

You can’t just create a Library File from your MONTAGE. The data that MONTAGE places in a Library File is always based on the contents of the five Folders I mentioned above. It takes the *current* USER Bank data and writes it in a file that then can be installed to Library Flash memory, when you load that newly created File.

In general it will contain up to:
256 Arps
8 Banks of Live Sets each w/256 slots
256 Motion Seqs
640 Performances
2048 Waveforms

So we need to find out: Did you do the “Library Import” to (unnecessarily create) those Library Files.
If you had, although an unnecessary step it would have likely resulted in everything working properly.

If you skipped the “Library Import” routine, then you falsely created what you think was data that was representing the installed MONTAGE Libraries. Because you cannot simply save a Library from a MONTAGE Library location. That is not how it works.

The USER Bank is where you assemble the data that becomes a Library File. Think of the User Bank as an area where you gather together the data that then can be “saved as...” a Library.

Just as you cannot create a file from the factory Preset data. There are 2655 Performances in the Factory Preset area. You could *assemble* 640 of them to the USER Bank, and then create a Library. But there is no way to save all 2655 Performances, nor is there any need to do so.

What you could do is create your own customized versions of 640 Performances from the Factory set, and create your own Library File .X7L... you would be taking the current User area and you would be executing a “save as...” routine that creates a Library (named, for example, “MyCustomVersions”).

So in light of that ... how did you create the Library Files you loaded to the MODX?
In the MODX, from the HOME screen press [CATEGORY]
Set the Search “Bank” to the Library you installed... what is the first listed Performance? Is it what you expect?

Since you are experiencing Performances that don’t sound, it could be that you are referencing data from an installed Library in your USER Bank Performances. And because you have not properly installed the Library into the MODX it cannot find what it needs.
If you create a User Bank Performance that uses the Bosendorfer Library’s “Imperial Grand”... the question is did you use “Library Import” or did you just point to the installed Library location?

Using the “Library Import” routine would be the process of assembling to the User Bank everything your Performances would need to be self-sufficient. If the Performance cannot find the data it needs it winds up “pointing to” an unoccupied location.

 
Posted : 12/09/2019 2:23 pm
 Mark
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Topic starter
 

Thank you Bad Mister for your help.

As I said, I love the sound of the Montage & MODX, but I am flummoxed by its data storage protocols.

Right now, I cannot locate the USB stick that I used to load the new sounds into the Montage. As I recall, I loaded up the Montage expanded and some sounds I had from my MOTIF XF. I've created backups of the Montage as I've gone along, but cannot find the original source sticks.

I have not created any songs or arps.
I am using 39 of the 640 user performance slots. I use a lot of stock sounds.
I really do not use the Live Set function. (I use Set List Maker to send program change commands to the Montage for each song I am performing. It sends simple MSB LSB Prog#)
I am using 472Meg of the 1.8gig waveform memory
When I query the Montage data utility, it tells me I have one library

I'm fine doing a hard reset on the MODX and starting from the beginning in order to do this correctly. As I have more time to work with the Montage, I expect that I will be programming more and will need to move the Montage data over to the MODX. If I can master this process, I will likely upgrade my Montage6 to a 7 and keep it at home while I use the MODX7 for gigging.

If I can get this right.

So - If I do a hard factory reset on the MODX, what is the best way for me to approach.

Thank you.

 
Posted : 12/09/2019 6:18 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Right now, I cannot locate the USB stick that I used to load the new sounds into the Montage.

Not to worry, if your data is in the MONTAGE you can create a new File. In general, you should keep your data on a USB stick you use specifically for your instruments. I have two (one I use everyday, the other stays in a safe location)... I also keep a folder on my computer DESKTOP with a backup of each FILE... this way you have options.

It is complex... on a scale of 1 to 10 managing your own custom data is near the top of the scale. Do NOT let that throw you. There is a method to the madness. First, appreciate that it allows you to create your own custom data and keep it on your instrument (for as long as you like it) - meaning you do not have to load it every time you want to use it. The data you select to install in your LIBRARY locations will be as much a part of your instrument as the 2,655 Performances, 6,347 Waveforms, 10,231 Arpeggios, etc., etc., etc that Yamaha installed at the factory... With this great power comes great responsibility.

I am using 39 of the 640 user performance slots. I use a lot of stock sounds.
I really do not use the Live Set function. (I use Set List Maker to send program change commands to the Montage for each song I am performing. It sends simple MSB LSB Prog#)

You can make your life easier by setting your 39 Performances into "USER 1" LIVE SET Doing so will allow you to address these 39 locations with a specific Bank Select and Program Change number and it will be the same in the MODX.

You can recall a PERFORMANCE... while on the HOME screen, hold [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET]
The first location in USER 1, PAGE 1 will have a white cursor flashing around it... touch that box to place your Performance in this Live Set location. This location will always be MSB 62, LSB 0, PC 0

Press HOME, move to your second Performance... hold [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET]
The second location in USER 1 PAGE 1 will flash ... touch that box to place your Performance in this Live Set location.. This location will always be MSB 62, LSB 0, PC 1

Press HOME, move to your third Performance... hold [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET]
The third location in USER 1 PAGE 1 will flash ... touch that box to place your Performance in this Live Set location.. This location will always be MSB 62, LSB 0, PC 2

and so on... There are 16 Performances per Live Set PAGE... so the first PAGE will all be MSB/LSB = 62/0, while the Program Changes will be 0-15 on each Page. The NEXT PAGE will have a different LSB and the PC will again be 0-15

USER 1, PAGE 2 will begin ... MSB 62, LSB 1, PC 0

 
Posted : 13/09/2019 12:06 am
 Mark
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Good Morning:

thanks you for the explanation of the inner working so of the Live Set function. It makes sense now that you've gone through it. And I will start the process of setting up my Live Set to call up the custom performances and the factory performances that I am using

But I am still unsure how I mirror my Montage setup over to the MODX. As I understand it, I have not exceeded the capacity of the MODX with what I have in the Montage. I will keep my Montage at home and use it for all of my programming and will use the MODX at gigs, so I still need to understand how to mirror the Montage to the MODX. I should have mentioned earlier that I have the Melas software for both the Montage and the MODX, if that makes the process easier.

Regardless, I' will do a factory reboot of the MODX to start with a clean slate.

I apologize if I am using the terms incorrectly...

1) I need to get the non factory sounds that I put into the Montage over to the MODX. These were the Montage fully loaded and the sounds from the MOTIF XF.

2) I need to get the user performances that I created on the Montage over to the MODX. These performances are a collection of layers and splits using the Montage factory sounds and the user installed sounds mentioned above.

3) I need to get the Live Set performances that I will create on the Montage, over to the MODX.

If I understand correctly, I should be able to do #1 & #2 and the user sounds that I have put into the Montage should have the same location designations in the MODX, which, in the short term allow me to send the same program change command to the MODX as I am sending tot he Montage.

If I start with a factory fresh reboot of the MODX, what is the best way to accomplish # 1 & 2?

Once again - thank you for your help. The hardware and sound are fantastic. There is great power in the way this system uses samples across the keyboard and across the playing dynamics. But it is much like learning a new language - it take time and practice.

Thanks - Regards - Mark

 
Posted : 13/09/2019 1:11 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Take it one step at a time.

Any data that is loaded to the MONTAGE and is in the current User Bank can be transferred to the MODX using a USER FILE (.X7U)
This includes the Performances, the Live Sets.
In the MODX, press [UTILITY] > touch “Contents” > “Load”
Set the “Content Type” = User File
Load the MONTAGE User File to the MODX

Any Library that is loaded to the MONTAGE can be transferred to the MODX by loading the same LIBRARY FILE (.X7L).
In the MODX, press [UTILITY] > touch “Contents” > “Load”
Set the “Content Type” = Library File
Load the MONTAGE Library File to the MODX

 
Posted : 14/09/2019 1:05 pm
 Mark
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Update - I figured I started out poorly with the Montage. So I did a factory restart. I loaded 7 libraries into the library (Chick Corea, Montage Fully Loaded...). The I started pulling these preset performances into a collection of Live Sets. I started re-creating custom splits and layered performances and stored them in the User1 memory. Then I added those custom Performances to the Live Sets. Once I get the Montage configured for my playing, I will copy the User data over to the MODX.

So that leaves me with 2 questions.
1) If I call up a Performance (not from the Live Set), I can use the Properties function to determine the MSB/LSB/PC for each performance and set up the appropriate midi command to call up that performance. Is there a similar query function for the Live Set. I know that you provided a road map above for the MSB/LSB/PC for the Live Set. I'm just wondering if there is the same ability to pull that information from the Live Set.
2) When I load the libraries into the MODX, do I need to load them in the same order as I did on the Montage?

Thanks - Mark

 
Posted : 18/09/2019 2:07 am
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