There are three levels of effects for every sound source including A/D. Insertion (each sound source gets two of these InsA/InsB), System (each sound source can selectively participate in Reverb and/or Variation), or Master (all sound sources routed to Main L&R will participate in Master if Master FX is enabled).

If you route the A/D input to the assignable output(s) (L/R) then you can bypass the system and master effects automatically without changing any parameters.

If, due to limitations on your mixing board or other external limitations (not wanting to have multiple audio drops for Montage) - and you want to use Main L/R for the A/D output then you cannot selectively isolate the Master effects from A/D. Most of the time the master effect is compression or something otherwise transparent. You can turn master effects off as a configuration (off for all, not selectively) or live with the master effect. In this configuration, system effects can be "zeroed out" for A/D - so A/D does not have to participate in system effects. This requires some reconfiguration if your performance does send A/D to the system effects.

For all configurations, make sure A/D insertion effects (A and B) are set to Thru (meaning no effect applied).

Montage allows for effects flexibility. In doing so, the individual performances can be setup to route A/D or apply A/D effects in various ways. The presets may not do what you want in this arena - but the end result is configurable. This requires some programming - saving a user performance which matches your intent. I do see that users have wished for a way to set some parameter to globally change something (like always remove effects from A/D - or always do XYZ for every performance). Many times there is no such parameter to force all performances to comply with a wish - requiring programming (work) to change every performance they use to selectively change the same parameter in each performance. This style of flexibility is a feature and the way Montage works. A vast array of global parameters which effect all performances is simply not available so programming will be required in many cases.

Hello Guiraj and Jason - this intrigues me. To try it myself involves a difficult connection path, so may I ask the question here please? If I connect the main outputs of my Korg M3 to the A/D inputs of the Montage, which is the master? If I play the Korg, will the Montage follow? If I play the Montage, will the Korg follow? I can see the advantages of connecting, say, a CD player so you can play along, but another synth (as per Owner's Manual) seems to get complicated.

@Rod:

Think of it like this:

When you mash on keys Montage's "normal" way to make noise is that the tone generator inside Montage will generate some sounds - something sampled (AWM2) or something synthesized through math (FM-X). This noise will pass through 3 level of effects assuming they're all switched on (insertion effects, system effects, and master effects). Each noise the tone generator makes can be used as stimulus for the envelope follower which is a way to control parameters using "loudness" as a lever. Also, any noise Montage makes can be used as a modulator for the vocoder.

Focusing on A/D input ...

The A/D input provides a way for some external tone generator to participate in the effects, envelope follower, vocoder, side-chain, etc. Some things like vocoder and side-chain make most sense using A/D (and not much sense using the internal tone generator in normal use). Side-chain is a way for Montage to follow the tempo and accents of an external tone generator/noise source. Vocoder is a way to modulate another (usually internal) sound known as the carrier when vocalizing into say a microphone hooked up to the A/D input. When you press a key or chord - nothing happens until you vocalize into the microphone (modulator) which will shape the carrier according to the detected sound you utter into the mic. A/D input is useful for taking external instruments like Guitar, Bass, maybe another analog synth with limited effects, maybe the DX7 with limited effects -- anything really -- and applying Insertion Effects (2 dedicated to A/D input) plus Reverb plus Variation system effects plus master effects. There are videos showing how to use Montage as a multi-effects processor for your guitar or (another video) for an analog synth to make them sound more groovy. A/D input can be used to "loop back" sound that comes out of Montage in order to do envelope follow or other tricks. You can hook up A/D to a metronome or bass drum in order to establish the tempo.

When I was transitioning between my previous keyboard and Montage - I had the old keyboard's main outputs routed to Montage's A/D input so I could hear my old keyboard and not have to use a mixer. You can essentially pass-through the A/D inputs to the Main L&R outputs in this manner. Or apply effects. Turning off effects (all 3 levels) globally is a quick way to hear the A/D inputs as pass-through.

You do have a learning curve here. I'm not going to say it's easy or hard to grasp. I think it usually takes a while to go through the 3 steps forward / two steps back process before arriving at some form of understanding. That's OK.

A/D input basically allows for you to do the same thing a PART does (it's like an extra PART) in terms of audio tricks except the source of the sound comes from some external device instead of Montage (unless you loop back a Montage output to the A/D input -- forget about this application for now). And there are a few features which you basically only use A/D inputs as the method to implement them. I believe you tend not to use some of the medium-to-advanced features at the moment. Which is also OK.

This question about master has a two-tiered answer. Korg (M3) is the master of making the original sound which feeds into Montage. So the fundamental external noise will be under the M3's control. Once the noise arrives inside Montage - Montage is in control of shaping or using that sound. Shaping in terms of effects - or in terms of vocoder - or in terms of guessing the tempo - or in terms of modulating some other tone in Montage according to what the M3 is doing - or Montage can just pass through the noise the M3 makes relatively untouched out the Main L&R.

To use an analogy (loose) - Montage is the Karaoke machine and the Korg M3 is the Microphone+Singer. The Karaoke machine plays background music (like the Montage has a tone generator with its own internal sounds) and effects (like reverb, etc - just like Montage) to make the singer (A/D input) sound better/different. In the case of a Karaoke + Singer/Mic - there's not really a "master" / "slave" relationship. Each piece is a master of its own domain and can each be very independent.

Keep in mind that Assignable L&R outputs will automatically strip off the master/system effects - so you can leverage this feature since you have a mixer if you want.

When it comes to audio signal path - it takes some "boning up" on the basics in order to discover what you can do as there are many options available.

Advantages of control over an external synth increase when you connect the MIDI Out of the Montage to the MIDI In of the external synth, and you route the main L&R of the external synth through Montage's A/D Inputs. The advantages are many... if you only connect the Montage to your external synth via MIDI, you limit your control over that external device to the usual familiar set of Control Change (cc) parameters, but once you additionally, plug the audio of your external synth through Montage, that's when the fun begins.

From an upcoming article on Montage Zone Master function:

"Are there advantages in routing the audio output of my 'slave' hardware device through the Montage A/D Input?
Yes, there are several beyond just saving a couple of channels on the band's mixer...
_You have an [A/D Input On/Off] switch available on the front panel. If ever you need to cut audio for the external device you can at the touch of a button. Great for those "on-the-fly" type users.
_The A/D Input Volume can be pre-set and controlled on a per Performance basis. Balancing volumes of internal and external slots for complex layers and splits, can be stored and accurately recalled; Realtime control over A/D volume can be assigned on the Common/Audio level of editing in Montage and varied via the Super Knob... meaning you can morph and crossfade between internal and external sounds same as you do with the internal Montage sounds.
_The A/D Input can be assigned it's own dual Insertion Effects per each different Performance. It's signal can be merged with the Montage to the Main L&R Outputs or can remain discreet and travel to the Assignable L&R Outputs. Parameters of the Insertion Effects dedicated to A/D Input can be assigned to realtime Control, same as any internal synth Part.
_The A/D Input can be used as a modifier (modulation source) within the Motion Control Synthesis Engine. The A/D Input can be routed via the Side Chain Modulation feature to the Compressors, the Dynamic Effects, the Vocoder etc. it's audio can be used to create an "Envelope" for other Parts to "Follow"
_The A/D Input can be used as a tempo source for all clockable functions within Montage. Great if your external device has any kind of automated rhythmic functions. Arps, LFOs, Tempo driven Effects, Motion Sequences...
_The A/D signal path takes advantage of Yamaha's high definition audio path, VCM processing and Pure Analog Circuit output. It will sound great!"

The A/D Input is not just an "Aux In" that passes through the Montage. It is actually converted to digital and can be processed, if you like with its own pair of Insertion Effects, or not. Routing is available to its own discreet audio Output (AsgnL&R) which avoids the System and Master Effects, and the Master EQ... or, as you know, you can merge the signal to the Montage's Main L&R Outputs.

The Assignable Outputs can be used anytime you want to route a Part to a separate external effect, amp, or sound system. The feed to the Assignable Outputs is post the Insertion Effects and Part EQs, but pre the System and Master Effects, and Master EQ. If, for example, you wanted to send your lead guitar sounds to a guitar amp... or your B3 sounds to a Leslie or Leslie simulator... you can pre-set that routing.

Hello Jason and BM - Wow! Looks like I may have got more than I bargained for! You confirmed what I felt, Jason, thank you - the Montage acts primarily as an effects unit for the connected synth. That could be useful but not earth-moving. I was trying to second-guess Yamaha as to how that inter-acted with MIDI, and along came BM with the answers to that! Thank you BM! As you will know, control of the Korg's effects can get a bit tricky, but there are a lot of nice sounds in there, so you've opened up a whole new field of endeavour without having to wangle things on two keyboards ... this began as an academic question, as Montage occupies nearly the whole of my time on its own, and both the Korg and the Tyros stand silent. The Montage MIDI OUT is already connected to the MIDI IN of the Korg (and the MIDI OUT of the Korg is connected to the MIDI IN of the Tyros). I think I'd prefer to route the Korg signal to the Aux L/R outputs of the Montage, then to the mixer in place of the current Korg to mixer connection, to maintain individual control of the overall mix in one place. Can't get to it today, unfortunately, but tomorrow afternoon looks like being a very happy one ... many thanks, guys ...

PS - I meant 'MIDI THRU' of the Korg - not 'MIDI OUT' ...

Hello all - I've tried outputting the Korg to the A/D inputs of the Montage, but of course for the MIDI to work the Montage must be in MIDI mode. Somehow it didn't feel right (to me) - the effects were OK but often not suited to the Korg voice, and trying to effect each synth differently simply wasn't worth the trouble. An interesting experiment, but I've reverted to the normal MIDI system without the A/D involved. Maybe I'll try it again if the mood takes me.

I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to route USB digital audio into the Montage (versus analog a/d) to control a vocoder. I can hear audio and view meter activity in the envelope follower but have no idea where to go from here. E.g. how to mute USB audio from the Main L&R outputs and route into the Vocoder modulation input instead. If my question is too specific for this thread I'll start a new topic. Thanks, Randy

Hi Randy and other forum goers (a definite big shout to Bad Mister too as when I think about the envelope follower, I think to myself, you da man), So Randy, I don't know when you posted your question. I have indeed the same problem. Please, let me explain. I am running Montage at 24bit 192Khz within a dedicated Cubase 9.5 pro environment. I have successfully used an external source (Ipad) using the A/D input for side chaining, env follow etc, and am able to mute the output of that sound so that it can be used solely as a signal carrier for modulation purposes. That works fine, apart from it is not midi sync'd so it would be very useful to be able to route a separate signal from the DAW to Montage for the same purposes as the A/D but of course being synchronised with the project.

It would appear however that there has been an oversight or perhaps, although I could not understand why, a design limitation. I think oversight so hopefully corrected in a later update. Basically, I can route a carrier signal from the DAW to the montage (digital input in the mixer section, next to the A/D input strip) and use it to control envelope follower functions, but you have to use it as the source input 'EnvFollowMst' and then you can use desired destination as usual. Problem is, Env Mst (or master) is whatever comes through the Montage inputs as a whole, which means in order to mute the digital input from the output stage in the same settings page as the A/D input settings page, it disengages the ability to use as a carrier signal. The A/D input has it's own setting for use as an envelope carrier whereas the digital input does not (that is why you have to use EnvFollowMst). I suggest that this is a rectifiable oversight and that the digital input can be given the same software credentials as the A/D in this regard.

This for me would represent the best implementation in terms of power, flexibility and workflow when using the excellent envelope follower function in Montage. In nearly two years, I have found this to be the only flaw, other than the lack of IOS remote editing of course, the John Melas tools are a very good, if not the only substitute. I still do most things with the amazing touch screen though, but the tools are essential for focused deep editing sessions, performance builds and library management. Anyway, I am rambling, fantastic instrument, please do look to resolve this problem though. It feels otherwise that what is being heralded as a powerful function, and rightly so is more like a gimmick because of this oversight.

I should just add, nowadays I use the Montage as my sole sound interface and although I have other options,HDSP9652 and an X32 producer mixer which I could use and route to be able to feed a separate 'analogue' carrier signal from the DAW into the A/D input of the montage to take advantage of midi sync'd envelope follower functions. Seems a bit crazy and long winded to have to resolve the issue in this way when the signal is there, inside the montage, it just needs to be able to be used as a carrier signal but, like the A/D input, muted/disengaged from the output.

Thanks for your help anyone.
Zed.

I do not have my keyboard setup again - so I cannot check.

A/D input can be routed to an output or not. The A/D input is like another PART and PARTs can be routed to either the main output, assignable output, or can be routed to NO output.

If the A/D input is routed to no output - does it still show up on envelope master?

Hi Jason, the problem is not with the A/D input. That is fine, it can be used to route an incoming signal through to the output stage incorporating effects and/or used as a modulating signal where the output stage can be set to 'off/no output'. It is the USB based digital signal that can be sent from the DAW/PC/MAC utilising the Montage as both a midi device but also as an audio interface. That signal it appears can be used to modulate say a vocoder as Randy wishes, the problem seems to be that there is no way to use that incoming signal and at the same time mute it from the output stage like you can with the A/D input.

Ok - there are 3 digital inputs to Montage. Is this true for all 3 (note: these are settings you have to make on the PC/Computer side)?

USB Main L/R will be routed to the Main output no matter what
USB Assign L/R will be routed to the Assignable outputs no matter what
USB Digital L/R should not be automatically routed to either.

... it should not be, Digital L/R should be the output selected if you do not want to force any particular routing.

Furthermore, in the "Edit - Common/Audio" screen (left-hand menu tab "Audio In" -> "Mixing" ) there are two sections. One starting with "A/D In" and one starting with "Digital In". For the "Digital In" section, the very last parameter in the far right is "Output Select" - where you can select to route to Main L&R or other outputs - should include OFF.

Jason is correct. The MONTAGE is acting as both a Synthesizer and an Audio Interface. When signal is returned from the computer via USB, it is digital signal. The MONTAGE is acting as Audio Interface when you route it to the Analog Outs. In the DAW, you have three stereo return options:

1) directly to the Main L&R (Analog) Outputs, after D-to-A conversion
2) directly to the Assignable L&R (Analog) Outputs, after D-to-A conversion
3) return the signal to the MONTAGE Mixer (Digital In). Signal returned here can be routed to the MONTAGE System and Master Effects if you direct it to the Main L&R Outputs; if however, you route it to any of the discreet Assignable Outputs (including USB1-30) it will be removed from the System and therefore bypass the System and Master Effects. Off is also an option

Now your question is “how come” the digital in can’t be used as a modulation source, same as the A/D Input... there are never any satisfying answers to “how come” questions.... could be it is lots of reasons... I will not speculate.

What you can do
Internal Waveforms can be a modulation source for any of MONTAGE side chain modulation or envelope following functions, if you have digital signal in your DAW Project that you would like to process in the Motion Control Engine, one option would be to export that audio as a 24-bit .wav, then create an AWM2 Waveform for that audio... place it in a Part and process it like any other sound.

The A/D In can also be a modulation source. You can create a second stereo Output (if your DAW allows) returning signal to the “AsgnL&R”. You can then patch the AsgnL&R to the A/D In L&R. Any audio routed to this second stereo Out bus will arrive at the MONTAGE “A/D In” where you can use it to modulate and create envelopes, etc., etc.

Thank you Bad Mister, Jason for your replies. Okay, my DAW (Cubase 9.5) routes to the main outputs of the Montage which go into the X32, monitors etc. The L/R assign from the DAW is completely possible but as there is no presence in the montage mixer section, there is no way to edit, therefore not be able to use as a modulating signal, the A/D input is editable but as I say, in my particular case, the signal from my Ipad/or other device is not beat/tempo sync'd. So the last remaining input (digital in), separate from the main output, which again, like the A/D input, is editable BUT, unlike the A/D input the digital in does not have a dedicated envelope follower assign (e.g envfol 1-16, envfolAD etc) the only way to use that signal as a modulating signal is to use envfolmst which as I say works fine as a signal modulator. Here though, the other BUT, if you then (because you might not want that signal to be output on your project) edit in the montage mixer and as you correctly say (Jason) there is the option to turn the digital in's output to 'off'. Aha, and then you lose the signal both as an audio input that you can hear but you also lose it as a modulation signal because, and this is entirely the point, there is no dedicated envelope follower assign to the digital in.

So, in essence, the reason indeed for my 'How come?" question, is that it must be an oversight, hopefully one that can and should be rectified in a future update, especially now with the release of the MODX, I expect it will have the same issue. Let's be fair, the Montage is a flagship product, and it is utterly brilliant. The envelope follower is an absolutely massive function and apart from this issue, it, like everything else has been implemented impeccably (my opinion anyway - apart from the smaller keys perhaps), Another flagship (and amazing product) essentially from Yamaha, Cubase. Between the two of them, this really ought to be possible.

I was aware of workarounds (Bad Mister), I had previously posted with regard to patching back to Montage A/D from the X32. The problem with that is the X32 limitation is 48Khz, I use Montage at 192Khz. I did also consider importing an audio waveform to, as you say, use as an internal part to modulate another part. These workarounds are cumbersome, frustrating and not terribly conducive to maintaining one's creative flow as it were. Thankfully though, you have given me practically the only solution that will work in my circumstance.

To expand in case it assists others. I have now patched balanced TRS cables from the physical outputs on the back of the Montage (assign L/R) directly into the physical A/D input again on the rear of the Montage. I have the assign output set up as an output bus within Cubase. I can now, simply and on the fly, using the 'send' function, send one track or multiple track audio signals to the montage A/D input via the Assign L/R output and use to modulate the envelope follower. I am not usually an OMG type of person but just trialling it with a random patch quickly and the results are exactly what I hoped and expected. Powerful and flawless with great flexibility and customisation.

So, I really want to thank you both (Jason, Bad Mister), It is a satisfying conclusion in that it solved my problem. It doesn't however rectify what I still believe to be a software oversight that can be resolved if there is the will. I am not entirely sure why you would need 'envfol mst', that should be substituted for 'envfolDIG. I mean, this is cutting edge, next generation synthesis, control and modulation and here I am going back to something that I haven't done in 10 years, patching. Haven't used SPDIF or ADAT in 6 or 7 years, everything now is USB and here I am getting out long packed away, analogue TRS cables to patch straight from one stereo output set to a stereo input set of the same piece of hardware. That sounds like proper star trek stuff. Apologies, my sarcasm is not aimed at you, not in the slightest, you have helped a massive amount. I just wanted to highlight the issue, create a discussion to at least discover another possibility, which I have but also to see if it can be brought up at the next scheduled firmware development meeting so at least it is known about.

Thanks again, hopefully others including Randy might find this useful too. (Bad Mister, you still da man)
Zed.