Some experiments
- Montage only sends these information via CH15. I checked all other channels, no unwanted data program change data send there
- Utility / Settings / Advanced; Zone master = ON; I/O mode = multi; MIDI I/O channel = 1

After restart (power OFF/ON) I noticed following:
- First I chose a performance which sends MIDI Pgm Num 55 via MIDI Ch15
Afterwards I scrolled through the Presets (cat search), at each preset Pgm Num 55 is sent
- If I choose a performance which sends MIDI Pgm Num 66 via MIDI Ch15, consequently Pgm Num 66 is sent scrolling through presets

This happens always, also after a restart. After some time and/or playing around the big problem occurs. Now every performance simply sends Pgm Num 99. This overrules my programmed values

I left the Montage untouched for about 3 hours and it didn't "freeze the MIDI program changes". It seems the problem is not time-related, I'll try it again later, but for 12 hours.

Interesting problem - thus far my only MIDI interfacing has been with a Voce V3 "clonewheel" rack unit. I noticed that I overflowed its buffers when I used the GM/Midi init voice since it was sending data out all 16 channels at once (16 parts worth of midi data). This caused stuck notes and the like. When I scaled back to one part only sending one set of MIDI commands, the Voce no longer had overflow issues.

If I really did have to control multiple devices on the same MIDI bus, then eventually older equipment may be faced with the same issue requiring some sort of MIDI "switch" (as opposed to hub) which would filter out channels which did not target a given device. Looks like MIDI Solutions is calling this a MIDI Router.

I don't think any of this matches up with your issue - but wanted to throw in a MIDI-related "gotcha" which, in this case, is more on the side of the attached hardware than on Montage.

After some playing around I can 100% reproduce it now.

It happens after I play certain performances, over and over again. I have to figure it out exactly but it looks like this:

A certain performance called “split organ” sends Pgm Num 44 to an external device via MIDI Channel 12 via part 9. From now on, Pgm Num 44 is sent continuously via MIDI Ch12. From now on performances can't control Pgm Num via Channel 12 anymore

Using part 9-16 for this purpose seems to be causing problems.

Can someone else reproduce this situation too?

- The MIDI cables are double checked.
- The effect unit seems okay. If I set Korg to MIDI Ch 15, it experiences exactly the same problem.
- Pgm num 100 is also sent with Preset Preformances. So basically all performances start sending Pgm num 100 via MIDI CH 15

Are you sure it is sending the message? In other words if you change the program on the effect device to program 33, does it return to 100 or does it simply not change. there is a difference.

Missing from your description is any info about what the effect device expects to see. Does it require Bank Select and Program Change? Or just Program Change? If just PC, turn BANK SELECT to Off within the Montage.

Since, as you say, you "don’t have problems controlling the Korg (Ch 14)" - it seems highly likely that it's the fact that Ch 15 is an effect processor and not a keyboard, you are not sure of exactly what this unit expects to receive _ if you figure out that end, we'll help you, as best we can, on the Montage side.

And since you also say, that moving the synth to Ch 15 it experiences the exact same problem... Seems to reverse the previous conclusion, I ask again, if you set the synth to another program number and recall the Montage Performance, it to goes to 100, or does it simply not change? This is not clear.

Let us know.

A certain performance called “split organ” sends Pgm Num 44 to an external device via MIDI Channel 12 via part 9. From now on, Pgm Num 44 is sent continuously via MIDI Ch12. From now on performances can't control Pgm Num via Channel 12 anymore

Continuously... Means all the time without stopping. Again is it actually sending this - do you have a MIDI Monitor you can verify this. Where is this certain performance from?

Let us know.

Are you sure it is sending the message? In other words if you change the program on the effect device to program 33, does it return to 100 or does it simply not change. there is a difference.

Yes, I'm very sure. It returns to 100 every time I switch performance.

Missing from your description is any info about what the effect device expects to see. Does it require Bank Select and Program Change? Or just Program Change? If just PC, turn BANK SELECT to Off within the Montage.

The effect device requires PC only. I noticed this problem with my effect device first. I found out later it happens on all MIDI Channels, with all my other devices (Korg & Roland)

Since, as you say, you "don’t have problems controlling the Korg (Ch 14)" - it seems highly likely that it's the fact that Ch 15 is an effect processor and not a keyboard, you are not sure of exactly what this unit expects to receive _ if you figure out that end, we'll help you, as best we can, on the Montage side.

Later, I noticed problems with the Korg too. Because of that I can reproduce this situation now on any device on any channel.

And since you also say, that moving the synth to Ch 15 it experiences the exact same problem... Seems to reverse the previous conclusion, I ask again, if you set the synth to another program number and recall the Montage Performance, it to goes to 100, or does it simply not change? This is not clear.

If I set the synth manually to 99, each time I change a performance, it will return to 100.

Continuously... Means all the time without stopping. Again is it actually sending this - do you have a MIDI Monitor you can verify this. Where is this certain performance from?

I didn't have time yet to install and connect a MIDI monitor, but I'm pretty sure now what's happening. I can connect a MIDI monitor next weekend. Continuously wasn;t the right word. It sends the PC-message, each time I change any performance on the Montage

BM thanks for your help and your earlier reply.

Could you do following experiment:
- Make a live set with 3 performances, test1, test2 and test3
- Connect an external device to the Montage via MIDI Channel XX
- In test1, set your external device to program 99 in part 8, MIDI Channel XX
- In test2, set your external device to program 100 in part 8 , MIDI Channel XX
- In test3, now use part 9 to set your device to program 101, MIDI Channel XX

Switch Montage OFF/ON

If I go to this live set and toggle between test1 and test2, my external device will follow and toggle between 99 and 100 as expected.

Once I've selected test3, my external device will remain at program 101. Also if I toggle between test1 and test2.

If I change my external device manually to program 1 and I select any (preset or user) performance, the external device will return to program 101.

Quick (basic) question: How many ZONEs do you have active.
You know the limit is 8, right?
Just saying...

Bad Mister wrote:

Quick (basic) question: How many ZONEs do you have active.
You know the limit is 8, right?
Just saying...

I have 3 - 8 zones active in almost all my performances. I do know the limit is 8 and as far as I know I never exceded that number.
.
Besides that, I wouldn't expect the necessity of restarting the Montage even if I am accidently using to many zones in a selected performance.

I found out that all parts can cause earlier mentioned problems (not only 9-16 but also parts 2-8). At my Montage V1.20 I noticed following:
.
When a performance has a certain part [Y] with ZONE=ON, parameters like Pgm Change, Midi Volume can be sent via MIDI channel XX.
.
If a successive performance has an empty part [Y], the earlier sent information like Pgm Change and Midi Volume is copied to Midi channel XX. So this information wil be sent again and again until it is overwritten by a performance using this part. Or if the Montage is put OFF/ON.

It's logical that I noticed these problems first at part 9-16, I use these parts hardly.

PS Am I the only one facing this problem, can others reproduce it?

hypothesis
.
- an empty part sends the ZONE-information it contained the last time that this part was used (after starting up the Montage)
- a part with a higher number overrules a part with a lower number (part 5 overrulles part 4)

So if you control an external device via part [X] and later on you want to control this device via part [<X] and part [X] is empty, your external device will get the wrong MIDI-data
.

Perhaps now compare Part [X] (which is, per your theory, causing a problem) and compare with Part [X+1] and see what differences there may be that you can use to modify Part [X] so it is no longer problematic.

Maybe even though you could find the settings - just following a different path may initialize the part properly before deleting (kind of feels like a potential initialization issue - not sure yet since I'm not replicating your setup here). By following a different path, I mean initialize the part then delete (delete the part first you want to remove, initialize the part by using the AWM2 init part from category search, then delete the part again so the deleted part is reinitialized before deletion). Just something to try.

Of course you can go in and manually adjust the zone settings as another way to test the theory you've presented prior to deleting the part vs. leaving the zone settings alone.

Hello,
I am facing the same problem. I am using Part 9 to send my program change information from my Montage 7 to my Motif XS7.
I am just using the original Motif sounds on the Motif.
Everything goes well because I am using only the performace mode on the Motif.
If I am changing manualy the sounds directly on the Motif it will work, but if you change the Montage to a Preset performence, without using Part 9, the sound on the Motif is changing back to the original sound used in the last part 9 program change information.

Maybe there is a way how to solve this problem.

best regards
Reinhard

Hello,
I am facing the same problem. I am using Part 9 to send my program change information from my Montage 7 to my Motif XS7.
I am just using the original Motif sounds on the Motif.
Everything goes well because I am using only the performace mode on the Motif.
If I am changing manualy the sounds directly on the Motif it will work, but if you change the Montage to a Preset performence, without using Part 9, the sound on the Motif is changing back to the original sound used in the last part 9 program change information.

That is correct. If you set the external device to a certain Program, it will remain at that Program until you change it. That is how MIDI works.
The last message persists until you change it.

The Zone Master setting that you make, includes the info to change your external device. If you then address that external device directly (via its own front panel) the Montage is unaware (and unconcerned) about this change. When next you select something on the Montage, the very last Zone Master setup you selected is sent. It remains until you change it.

I guess this was easier for people to understand when it was a separate mode... but Zone Master screens: "Zone Settings" and "Zone Transmit" appear in every Performance (are visible via every Performance). In your USER Bank you could program 640 of them. If you have only programmed one, then these two screens will appear exactly the same in every Performance... every Performance! It just persists until you change it!