So using the trim adjustment makes the Mackie less clear than blowing the doors off? I would think such a loud volume might have some distortion associated - although a great speaker wouldn't -- so maybe it's loud and clear. Thumbs up if so.

I guess you can see what cutting off the highs and lows (switches on Mackie) will do - but I imagine you've fiddled with the switches already.

The Montage you say you have set at +0dB for Main L&R - you could always try -6dB. This would adjust the headphones down as well, though.

Here I use the trim on the monitors (they're not Mackie) to set the volume correctly and also have the Montage set to 0dB for Main L&R.

You have two things to adjust volume on the Montage (offset = +/- dB settings + main volume slider) and volume on Mackie (input trim or high/low rolloff switches as a possibility - although you may not want to shape the freq. response).

Hi Jason, Yes it is very loud , actually to the point of distortion. I have messed with the Mackie switches and it helps a little. It's the volume. The Montage volume is set to 0dB and I have tried -6dB but it's a very small change. I was just trying to figure the correct order in which the volume should be adjusted. I don't want to rely on the Master slider, that could provide an interesting moment with the slip of a finger. Thanks for your thoughts. I will follow your last paragraph.

Note - there are some other options here. You can adjust the volume offset (tone generator):

[UTILITY] button, "Settings" -> "Sound"
Next to tone generator is a "Volume" - set that to something smaller. This will scale your main volume slider. The setting will survive power-off, so it "sticks".

You could of course scale your PARTs, or change mixer settings, or other items. Seems like the volume scaling should do what you need, though.

I would prefer to use the trim on the back of the Mackie monitors, myself.

I'll give it a go. Thanks.

Hello Louis - I had similar issues, with very marked volume variations between Presets, Banks and Libraries, which I resolved by fitting a small 4 channel mixer between the Montage and the monitors. The monitor trims are set to about 80%, Montage main slider to 50%, the amplifier to 80% and the mixer is then adjusted easily between 40% and 80% depending on the loudness of the sound. I'm not too critical on sound detail, but you have 4 sets of volume adjustments to suit your own criteria without touching the less easily adjusted controls within Montage. Plus (usually) a handy Bass / Treble control - just be sure the flip-switches are set to 'Line' and not 'Mic' ... !

Hello Rod and thank you for your input. I have been at it for 3+ days now and I have to be honest, Montage does not sound all that good in my environment. I played it quite awhile at the store thru a pair of 5" HRs? and the board sounded very nice. My home speakers are much better but Montage does not sound that good. Not to mention a string of other issues. So far this is not at all worth the investment for me. It makes me sad because I truly like the board very much. The build quality, knobs and sliders are well made but as to the overall sound of Montage I am not pleased. Watching videos and listening I was very impressed but here at my home studio it sounds like a low quality board. Some may say it's my system but I can assure you inside my DAW I have a pristine sound but not Montage. I will give it a fair bit of time but will not marry myself to something that is not satisfying. I'm certain I will get some feedback about something I am doing wrong and I'm ok with that. Sure, I may not know my way around the interface but my ears aren't concerned about that. It almost sounds like Montage is not functioning properly. I have even gone as far as Restoring the initial factory settings (Initialize All Data) with no change.

Louis,
There is certainly something amiss.

Montage with or without USB connection to computer and monitoring with headphones and Utility/Sound/Volume = 127. All sounds good as you would expect.

This is enough to know the Montage is playing normally and outputting sound properly. The signal at the Main L&R Output should be identical. Headphones efficiency does vary - but most will provide good solid listen levels.

Montage with or without USB connection to computer and Monitors turned on. Utility-Sound-Volume = 127 = Blowing the doors off of my home. (Dangerously!) I have to put Montage volume in Utility down to 35 and still very loud but ok. If I turn down the speakers instead I feel the clarity is diminished. I haven't touched the Audio I/O in Utilities. They are all still at +0dB. Does this sound normal and am I turning down the correct gear?

From this it sounds like your analog connections between the Montage and your powered monitors is being seriously mismatched. You might need to place a mixer in between or simply find the efficient spot.

I'm sorry I am not familiar with the Mackie Monitors, personally, but I would concentrate on why you are getting such outrageous OUTPUT LEVELS from the analog outputs. Too much level, typically can be dealt with by reducing the amount of signal you are sending. You should be able to get a reasonable matching level to what is coming out of the headphone jack. Albeit that your headphones may be inefficient and your speakers very efficient... these are variables

If you are matching the Input Sensitivity setting on the back panel of your monitors, then the monitor is expecting you to attenuate the incoming signal appropriately prior to input to the cabinet - usually this is handled by a mixer in-between the input device and the monitor speaker. For example, If you are running the amplifier in the Monitor FULL OPEN (typically the setting for LINE level Inputs), then you have no other method to control volume than at the OUTPUT of the Montage. I'm sure they are anticipating you adjust the signal with a mixer of some sort.

If you are foregoing the mixer, then it is recommended that you set the Input Sensitivity control so that you set the output to taste.

When sitting in the sweet spot and angling in a couple hundred watts of power at about three feet, you might well part your hair. But you can reduce the signal by using a mixer in between or simply reducing the Input Sensitivity control to comfortable level, without degrading the sound. Take your time find that spot.

You may want to check with what Mackie recommends. Sometimes in a situation where you are plugging a keyboard synthesizer directly into the Monitors they don't have the right pad to handle it (see what they recommended). Worst case a small format mixer should do the trick. Let us know what they recommend. I don't see anything in their documentation associating them with directly connecting instruments, although I see nothing saying you can't, either.

BM I am not questioning anything you say here in your post above. I agree and have made such adjustments without satisfaction. What is disturbing is in the past from my XF to my Kronos etc. I have not had this experience at all and thru the same gear setup, other than monitoring thru Montage. If you read my last post above I am also not hearing a clear sounding Montage as I do in videos or my experience at the store. This would lead to possibly something wrong with my setup but if I pull up Omnisphere and a Maschine drum groove they sound clear and very nice I might add. And this is playing back audio thru Montage? I am stumped.. It's clear that somewhere something is not right. Believe me the Performances just don't sound as they should? Maybe I will try connecting Montage thru my Ensemble and see if there is any difference..

Louis,
I wish I could help you, but the help you get is always in keeping with the info you give. We have no idea what DAW, for example, your using, or how you have that setup. You may assure us that everything always sounds good their but then that's all we have to go on. There are so many wildcards we can play, "guess-what-I've-got-setup", and sometimes we can get lucky - but mostly the better the info given, the better we are able to help solve the issue.

What's an "Ensemble"?

Hello Louis - sympathies and there is much in what you say - I think Yamaha should do some testing with matching speakers to Montage, and TELL US! I asked this when I first got my Montage, and was told it was the fault of my speakers (which I can accept as they're not top-end big-bucks), but both my Tyros 3 and Korg M3 sound fine through them - so why not the Montage? Bottom end (below middle C) becomes increasingly 'muddy' or muffled and often lower volume too. while the volume itself can vary between notes. Not all sounds, but many. I found that my little Sony hifi gives better results with Montage, so I use that, with a mixer, to get acceptable results - but I do think there are enough expressions of dissatisfaction to justify Yamaha taking a serious look at speakers to match the Montage. Maybe a matching set as they produced for the Tyros - although my MS02 amplifier has failed as well - I originally used that (via MIDI) until it blew a gasket - or maybe Montage blew it?

Louis wrote:

Very basic setup to explain what I'm experiencing. (It's the same in DAW or completely stand alone.)

Montage with or without USB connection to computer and monitoring with headphones and Utility/Sound/Volume = 127. All sounds good as you would expect.

Montage with or without USB connection to computer and Monitors turned on. Utility-Sound-Volume = 127 = Blowing the doors off of my home. (Dangerously!) I have to put Montage volume in Utility down to 35 and still very loud but ok. If I turn down the speakers instead I feel the clarity is diminished. I haven't touched the Audio I/O in Utilities. They are all still at +0dB. Does this sound normal and am I turning down the correct gear?

My speakers are Mackie HR824. They function and sound very good. My cables are Balanced TRS to XLR (Monsters)

After further nose diving into the problem, I have eliminated all connections to the computer, just Montage connected to my speakers. Listening from headphones there are no volume issues and in Montage - Utility/Sound/Volume is at 127. All is ok. When turning on the speakers "User beware!" Frightening, I have to turn down the volume in Utility to 25-35 which helps but the stereo image is not there. It almost sounds mono? Go figure. (It's my $12-$1500. speakers)

BM, as you stated above and I believe nailed it: ("You may want to check what Mackie recommends. Sometimes in a situation where you are plugging a keyboard synthesizer directly into the Monitors they don't have the right pad to handle it (see what they recommended.") I'm pretty certain this is the problem. Changing sensitivity switches on the monitors does nothing. When connecting with a DAW, any DAW the same volume problem exists. Montage and my speakers do not like each other. I am not prepared to, nor do I choose to buy a mixer for my keyboard. I may, down the road decide to get a new set of speakers but for now I am sitting on a few thousand dollars of keys that aren't working with what I have. This is a sad moment for me. 🙁

* Ensemble * (Apogee) is the audio interface I was using.

Hello Louis - your speakers are high-end and you have a problem. My speakers (Alesis M1s) are low-end, and I have a problem (but only with Montage). Others have made similar comments. I expect any synth to work reasonably well with any speakers, and up to now that has been the case. Something is amiss, it seems. Montage is a fascinating machine, but is too picky? Hopefully Yamaha have picked up on this over the past 9 months, and are working on it.

Too bad the trim on the back of the Mackie (looks like you would use a Phillips-head screwdriver to adjust) doesn't work for you.

I was thinking of how to compare notes on Main L&R output levels - one idea would be to route the Main L&R outputs to A/D IN, turn the A/D IN gain to an easily repeatable position (I would say full open - only because it's easiest to repeat vs. "12 o'clock" which may lead to some error in reproducing results). Go to [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) then press [EDIT] and choose "Audio In" -> "Mixing", change setting "Output Select" on the second line (associated with "A/D In") to USB 1&2. This will isolate the A/D input to output over USB1/USB2.

Setup Cubase for an Audio track and set the input to USB1/USB2. You may have to add a stereo bus and assign USB1/USB2 to this stereo bus. Here, I have done this and have a "Stereo In 2" bus assigned to USB1/USB2 digital inputs (digital outputs from Montage).

To prevent a feedback loop, under cubase I have the stereo output level to zero.

Document all mixer/volume/etc settings. Play a constant tone like FM-X Init (Sine wave) and look at the fader level. Document the note performed and also document the max volume and steady-state (held key) volume. Since FM-X responds to velocity - there may need to be some editing to ensure the velocity is constant as well.

Under cubase it's easiest to click on "Edit Channel Settings" since this view shows the largest meter. Cubase input fader for Stereo In 2 was set to 0dB (default)

Under Mixing, Volumes: Part 1=100, A/D=100, Digi=100, Master=127
Under [UTILITY] Setup, Tone generator volume = 127
Under [UTILITY] Audio I/O, all outputs (Main L&R, Assign, USB main, USB 1-30) set to +0dB (Direct Monitor is ON so sound goes out Main L&R)
Other levels set inside the "Init Normal (FM-X)" are set to defaults - not changed.

Note: all 3 effects levels (insertion, system, master) are turned ON for my test results.
A/D input turned on, knob turned full clockwise.

There may be more variables that would alter the results that I have not documented.

This method is a little involved but a way to compare notes about your board's output level vs. mine.

imgh.us shutting down - backup:

Picture shows holding the C4 note and MIDI-OX shows velocity is max (0x7F, decimal 127). Steady state volume is just under -24 and peak during attack was between -6 and -12 (thin green line).

Note that the "Audio" input was set to "Stereo In 2" which are the USB1/USB2 channels directly connected to A/D inputs as set by above Montage-side settings.

Rod, yes I agree and thank you. I have read a few posts regarding volume comments.

Jason, this was one of the first adjustments I made. There is a very tiny groove down the center of the trim but the it actually protrudes enough to turn with your finger. Turning down the trim made the speakers lower but the stereo was not correct and Montage actually sounded mono and an obvious loss of tonal quality, which was evident when putting on headphones. I am going to return it.. bummer!