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Why are Part volume settings are so varied, and how can I get this under control when creating multi-part Performances?

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 Gary
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Topic starter
 

To make this as simple as possible I'll refer to two Preset Performances that are the same instrument, and both are single-part Performances: CP80 Layer and CP80. They are side by side and so are easy to find. When I compare the perceived volumes as I play them one after another, they sound similar in volume; but when I look at the volume slider on Performance Play Page, one is at 100 and the other is at 127? That's a BIG difference. I've noticed this on quite a few occasions when creating Multi-Part Performances, I have to max out one Part and pull the other way down to 60 or 70 to match them. I assumed it was because I was combining Presets with XF imported Voices. But now I'm noticing a big difference even between Presets. It's not like one is solo piano sound and the other is a Lead Synth where you'd expect volume differences. Does anyone else notice this?

On the XF, 100 was pretty much always 100. I remember buying an Easy Sounds Library set that ran a bit hotter than the preset Voices, but even then, I knew when I incorporated one I always had to put them at 80 to equal the Presets at 100. I cannot seem to find a norm in Montage. Sometimes a Part at 127 gets buried by a Part at 90.

I've got my multi-part Performances mixed well on their own, - I'm now trying to get an idea of where they need to be in relation to one another so I don't have to ride the volume slider all night long and I'm having a hard time because they are all so different and the Volume settings do not help at all.

Is there something on a deeper level that I'm missing? Is there any way to kick up the volume of a Part already set at 127?

Thanks,
G

 
Posted : 06/08/2016 2:59 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Is there something on a deeper level that I'm missing? Is there any way to kick up the volume of a Part already set at 127?

Yes, to both questions. You are referring in both instances to the Part Volume.
The "CP80 Layer" Part Volume is 100
The "CP80" Part Volume is 127

The level of editing you have not mentioned is the overall Performance Volume. Each of the program's you mentioned is a Single Part Performance. A Performance can house as many as 16 Parts... There is an overal Volume (deeper level) that turns all Parts up or down - a Master Performance Volume

For the "CP80 Layer" the Performance Volume is 80
For the "CP80" the Performance Volume is 102

So you can turn up the CP80 Part that is already 127 significantly.

The Performance Volume is found:
Press [EDIT]
Press the upper [COMMON] button
Touch "General"
The Volume here affects the entire Performance -all sixteen Parts and is like the Master fader for the entire ensemble.

The programming team is an international team with representatives from around the world, you can almost tell after awhile who has programmed what sounds. Some go for the over all louder is better paradigm others are a bit more refined and a little less aggressive. Some programs are for aggressive play other for ballads, it's all in how it's programmed and how you approach playing it. Adjust to your liking.

Also not mentioned there is another deeper level of editing... The Element Levels. Yes, each of the individual Elements that make up a Part has its own output level on the Amplitude screen.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 06/08/2016 6:25 am
 Gary
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Very helpful indeed, though it has exposed a tangential issue/concern.

Preset: Pop Horns Bright, - the volume is lower when its added to a User Performance than it is in the original preset alone. I've checked all three levels of volume (Performance volume, Part volume, Element Amplitude) and they are all at 127 but it gets buried by everything else in my new multi. The issue is, when I go to the original Pop Horns Bright Performance it is PLENTY loud. I tried adding it as a single Part and also did a complete Performance Merge. Something is affecting the volume and I know not what it is. Do you get same results and do you have any other ideas as to what I'm missing?

Please advise, thanks
G

 
Posted : 13/08/2016 5:23 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

When using "Performance Merge", it is important to be aware of the original programming; how it is achieving what it achieves, then you can either reproduce it in your new Performance or assign your own control over the components for your new Performance. Either way, you have some decisions to make.

The answer could be simple or complex...
Let's cover the simple first: In your Performance, the new one you are building, the overall Performance Volume will affect all new Parts you merge into it. So because the "Pop Horns Bright" when at Home has its Performance Volume set to 127, does not mean when you "merge" it the Performance Volume of what you are working on changes. Quite naturally, what you already have setup remains. (The Performance Volume of your creation doesn't change, the Name doesn't change, etc... none of those common level things change. You are simply adding a new Part). It is the programmer (you) that must make the items you've selected to merge, work together. If you want to use the horns to set the measure of "how loud", make the Performance Volume match the value it had originally, and then turn down the Parts you already have assembled. Check your Performance Volume - is it 127?
_ It's your responsibility to balance (mix) the individual Parts within the main overall Performance Volume.

The complex issue:
When you play the Performance: "Pop Horns Bright" as originally programmed by Yamaha, it is a four Part (Multi) Performance. Volume 127.

Part 1 is the main Brass Ensemble
Part 2 is the high trumpets +1 octave brought in by the PART 2 AssignKnob 1, which is linked to the Super Knob movement
Part 3 is the "shake" articulation brought in by the AssignSwitch1
Part 4 is the "fall off" articulation brought in by the AssignSwitch2

MW is used to do Sforzando, as it immediately turns down overall volume.

Play and explore the programming, particularly those things that are linked to the Super Knob. When you "merge" this or any Performance with another, you must make the decisions about which Parts are linked to your new Performance's Super Knob: Do you want that same control in your new Performance? In its home habitat, "Pop Horns Bright" the 'high horns' are linked to the Super Knob. In its home habitat, the high horns are in Part 2. When you "merge", which copies the Part and all of its Part assignments - it does not rewrite your upper Common/Audio parameters, links and assignments. That would be disastrous. (What's in Part 2 now?) Your Performance already has Common assignments - presumably made for use controlling the KBD CTRL Parts you have already assembled...merging does not impact what you already have setup ... You must ADD your new Super Knob link assignments...manually.

Now that you have added (merged) the "Pop Horns Bright" and it's four Parts, you'll want to link the high horns Part, with your Performance's Super Knob. The high horns are no longer in Part 2 (you realize), so the link to the Super Knob is up to you to program based on what you need/desire to accomplish in your Performance... and based on what Controller Source/Destinations boxes are available you need to set your links for your new Performance.

If you determine you want to use the +1 octave, high horns of the "Pop Horns Bight" in your new Performance, you could simply "merge" Part 2. This will bring all of the PART programming for this program to its new Home, but it's up to you to program what happens at that upper overall Performance Common/Audio level of programming. So specifically, the high horns still have AssignKnob1 controlling their Volume (that's a PART parameter setting) but your new Performance does not have the Super Knob linked to control it. You have to do that in your new Performance (because that's a Performance parameter setting) Make sense?

On the upper Common/Audio level nothing is merged... Not the Performance Name, not the Performance Volume, not the the A/D Input, System Effects, Master Effects, Master EQ, nor the Super Knob Control Assignments... Those things all belong to your new Performance and must be made and worked out in your programming.

In your new Performance, you must link "PART 'X' Assign 1" to Super Knob movement... where 'X' is the number of the Part now containing the high horns. So if you "merged" the four Part of the "Pop Horns Bright" to an already existing four Part Performance, then you will need to ADD (+) a new DESTINATION to its Control Assign matrix... "PART 6 ASSIGN 1" (what was Part 2, is now Part 6).

In the "Pop Horns Bright" it's a simple 0-127 AssignKnob1 movement to control the Volume of the octave shifted horns. Find an available DESTINATION on the Common/Audio level of your Performance, and ADD (+) a new one.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 13/08/2016 1:30 pm
 Gary
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you for the thorough answer. I understand about defining the Superknob controls/settings and the high horns Part that it brings in etc. To answer your question, - the new Performance volume is at 127, as is the Part volume and the element amplitudes. Ah, it may be the Master Effects and/or EQ. I, admittedly have not dug into that yet. I'm surprised, though, that I have not had those settings make such a difference between the Presets and the many new Performances I've made. I'm sorry I'm not at home to look into it further and report, but I'll see what I can find when I am.

Thanks again Phil,
G

 
Posted : 14/08/2016 5:37 pm
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