How can these settings be changed to get the same rate of brightness like on the full concert grand or on the powergrand

Thanks for the question. I guess first it would be important to explain exactly what the CUTOFF knob in the TONE 1 controls.

Contrary to perhaps your first thought, it does not control a specific filter... It is an offset control... It is adding (clockwise) or subtracting (counterclockwise) to any and *all* filters assigned within this Voice. Unlike a typical analog synth where all Oscillators traverse a single Filter with a single FEG, the engine of your Motif XF can have 8 oscillators - each having its own Filter and it's own FEG.

While this is far more useful when defining details within complex instrument sounds, it makes making changes a lot more complex. The Full Concert Grand piano Voice, for example, has 8 oscillators, 8 Filters, (8 of everything)... To make a sound brighter would require major surgery, if not for the CUTOFF knob. You would literally have to adjust each individually.

The CUTOFF Knob literally, adds to (raises the CUTOFF frequency) or subtracts from (lowers the CUTOFF frequency) of all 8 filters, simultaneously.

If there is no filter assigned to an Element (oscillator), turning the CUTOFF Knob will have absolutely no effect on that Element. Because the CUTOFF Knob is not a filter, it applies an OFFSET, to all active filters within the VOICE.

Therefore, how it behaves within each of the Piano Voices you've mentioned will be determined by *how* the original programmer chose to implement the filters available.

A Filter is a device for removing things, usually unwanted items... Like a coffee filter keeps the grounds out of the portion you drink, a musical filter removes either high frequencies (called a Low Pass Filter), or low frequencies (called a High Pass Filter). For musical instrument emulation the LPF is far more useful.

The reason: the harder you hammer, strike, pluck, bow or blow a musical device the richer it becomes in harmonics... the more high harmonics you hear, and therefore, the brighter the tone. So a Velocity Sensitive LPF is like very, very useful in instrument emulation. To view the 8 individual (actual) Filters:
Press [EDIT]
Press [1] to view Element 1's parameters
At [F1] OSCILLATOR you can see the role of this Element within the Voice
Press [F3] FILTER
Here you can explore the actual Filter for Element 1. Element 1 in the Full Concert Grand is responsible for the main body of the Piano for velocities up to 50
Press [SF1] TYPE
Here you can see the type of filter selected and so on...
Use the numbered buttons to explore the different Elements 2-8, what the role of each is and the filter assigned. Each Element has a Note Range and Velocity Range, and it's own Sensitivity to Velocity. This is the programmer's job, to make each Velocity Zone brighten in timbre, so the next Velocity Zone takes over at that point and brightens to match the next Zone, and so on.

So when you move the TONE 1 CUTOFF Knob, you are literally raising and lowering the Cutoff Frequency of each of these 8 Filters together. It's so you have quick access to them all together. Making sense?

Now, explore the programming on the Voices you say do not respond - or have a marginal effect. This will now be apparent.

Filter changes in the instrument Piano are mostly affected by Velocity Sensitivity change... I mean, you could create a wah-wah Effect on an acoustic piano if you had somebody raise and lower the lid while you played, so radical filter settings are not going to be something every programmer would setup the same. It's personal. Many of the programmers do not assign the MW to anything when programming a piano, other use it for various things... There is no normal, because a piano doesn't really have a MW - so it's personal choice.

If you explore these Voices and still cannot see why the influence is marginal, let us know. But this should get you started... Thanks for the question.

Hi,
turning up the CUTOFF knob on S700 piano voice causes an abrupt change in brightness (vel. 74 - 75, element change). I am trying to figure out how to set the individual filters to make this change less audible. Still doesn't work for me...

Honzinus78,
We assume you read the response above. And hopefully learned that the CUTOFF Knob is not a Filter but rather an offset that is applied to the actual Element Filters when a Low Pass Filter is selected. If no Element Filters are assigned turning this Knob would do nothing at all to the sound of the XF. (It would send cc74 Out via MIDI, however, but it would do nothing to the sound internally... again because it is NOT a Filter, it is a Control that Offsets the assigned Filters.

"Turning up" will offset the currently applied Filter by increasing the Cutoff Frequency. In the case of a Low Pass Filter, this will allow more high frequencies to pass and therefore the timbre or tone gets brighter.

It is not clear from your post which S700 Voice, specifically, you are talking about (rather critical information) but since most have similar programming...
(You can apply the following yourself):

The S700 is a recreation of a $250,000 handcrafted Yamaha acoustic grand (if you ever get a chance to play the real thing, do so) It has a very smooth non-explosive sound. The sampled recreation is principally 3 Waveforms: A Soft strike, a Medium strike and a Hard strike set of Samples...

The Voice programming varies depending on which VOICE version of this data you are playing. If your version has 5 Elements they are mapped as follows:

Element 1 = the HARD strike from C-2 through F#5; hard is defined by velocities 110-127
Element 2 = the MEDIUM strike from C-2 through F#5; medium is defined by velocities 75-109
Element 3 = the SOFT strike from C-2 through F#5; soft is defined by velocities 1-74

Above G5 the Strings on an acoustic piano are undamped and ring free
Element 4 = the Medium strike G5 through G8; all velocities
Element 5 = the Key-Off noise triggered on key release across all keys; velocities 2-127

There are 5 Elements, each Element has its own Filter
Element 1 = LPF12
Element 2 = LPF12
Element 3 = LPF18s ('s' for smooth slope)
Element 4 = LPF6
Element 5 = LPF18

You are adjusting all the filters when you move the CUTOFF Knob. If your goal is to affect just the MEDIUM strike Waveform (Element 2) then you should be adjusting just the 12dB/oct Filter assigned to Element 2 (velocities 75-109)

Press [EDIT]
Press [2] to view Element 2 parameters
Press [F3] Filter to view the Filter settings for the MEDIUM strike.
The [SF] buttons 1, 2, and 3 for TYPE, FEG (shape and response), SCALE

This is where you can adjust the Medium strike's LPF, and you can compare and contrast it with the Soft strike (Element 3)
Working on the Filter itself is working with surgical tools, while spinning the Cutoff Knob is like using a hammer. Specific versus General.

Not sure what you are attempting to do but this should put you much closer to your goal.

Hope that helps.

Bad Mister,
thank you very much for reply!!!

The piano voice I am using is "S700 for XS" from the Flash Inspiration Library for MOXF.

There is a LPF12+HPF12 filter on Element 1 and 2, but that's ok, I understand what that means.

I'll try to tweak the setting to my taste.

The goal is to soften the abrupt change in color between elements (74 -75 vel.) after turning up the CUT OFF knob thus making whole piano brighter. S 700 is nice, but kinda dark for me.

Thanks again!

Hey guys!
I am still a little bit confused about CUTOFF parameter. Here comes very simple question:

"Intimate S6" patch has a parameter named FLT-Frq assigned to AS1 knob. This contoller is set for all of the elements, the depth is + 4.
What exactlly is this? I suppose this is not same as cut off knob.

Regards,

Honzinus

"Intimate S6" patch has a parameter named FLT-Frq assigned to AS1 knob. This contoller is set for all of the elements, the depth is + 4.
What exactlly is this? I suppose this is not same as cut off knob.

In this case they are doing a similar thing, with the following differences...

It is offsetting the Filter Cutoff Frequency of each of the Elements in the Voice. The DEPTH of +4 is the programmer setting the effective range of filter movement. The CUTOFF Knob also offsets the Filter Cutoff Frequency, but there is no selection available about which Element's filter it is affecting, and there is no setting of the effective range of change.

Here on this particular Voice the AsgnKnob1 is going to brighten (open or raise the Filter Cutoff) as you turn clockwise from the 12 o'clock position. And will darken (close or lower the Filter Cutoff) as you turn counterclockwise from the 12 o'clock position. It will do so proportionally for each individual selected Element's Filter. All Elements are selected, in this case.

The CUTOFF Knob is like a saber sword while the AsgnKnob 1 is like a scalpel.

As you play middle C repeatedly turn AsgnKnob1 clockwise, hear a more defined attack, then lower it to hear a more rounded attack.
Do the same thing with the CUTOFF Knob, you'll find that closing the Filter will almost completely remove the sound.

They are both affecting all Elements, it's a matter of degree. The programmer wanted you to select between an initial dark and light tone. To really feel this difference try the AsgnKnob1 at different positions for several minutes... set it then play for a while to see how it responds to your touch. Experience how when playing an "intimate" piano piece you can feel the difference in timbre from soft to loud. Since we all have a different touch, the experience will vary from individual to individual and musical piece to musical piece.

It is how the keyboard behaves as you vary your playing from soft to loud... you may want your softest notes to have more of that that rounded tone; as you play harder the sound will brighten (velocity assigned to Filter) but this setting of AsgnKnob1 is to set that 'initial' brightness. So try it for several minutes at a setting to get a feel for it.

You'll see you can do a similar thing with the Cutoff Knob but its sweep is W--I--D--E.