Press [MIXING] to view the Motif XF Mixer
The "Mellow Grand Piano" Voice occupies PART
Press [5]

The Voice in Voice mode is in a room all by itself. When you move the Voice to a Performance Part, a Song or Pattern Part, it is like joining a band and/or going to a studio. The single sound (Voice) is plugged into a "mixer", the mixer has its own settings... Like EQ, like a Send to a Reverb, another Send to a Time Delay (Chorus) Effect, it has a fader, a pan position control, etc.

The Reverb chamber that is selected for the PATTERN MIXING (all Parts have a Send to this "System Effect"... Which is the REV-X Hall as opposed to the "R3 Room" from Voice mode. Obviously the amount of reverb Send is more in the Pattern Mixing. Like an instrument in a room with other instruments, in a Mixing all instruments share the Rev-X Hall together.

The biggest difference, however, is the PART EQ. As with any sound placed in an ensemble, you wind up EQ'ing it to work with the current musical surroundings... If layered with strings or a pad or heavy dark instruments you might EQ it one way, with distortion guitars you might EQ it a different way. There is significant "shaping" of the sound as you can see graphically:

From the MIXING screen
Press [EDIT]
Press [5] to select Part 5 parameters
You can view the EQ by pressing [F5] EQ
EQ basically controls how loud or soft an instrument will sound across its note range. Here you can see a dip in the middle frequencies and a definite boost to the high end. So as you play across the keyboard you are louder and cut more in the upper end. Study the frequency selection for this three band EQ. Relate the frequencies of the Equalizer to notes on the keyboard. This will give you a better idea of the response you are getting.

It is not just the fundamental pitch that is louder, but the upper harmonics of the low and midrange keyboard notes will be affected by EQ curve. It not only makes all fundamental pitches louder when you get above the 600Hz range, but this will make the upper harmonics of lower notes you play brighter. On a piano this makes the percussive attack of notes stand out -even from the lower keys. You get a more spike-y attack by raising the upper frequencies.

This EQ curve helps the piano in this particular musical mix. EQ is typically arrived at while listening to the instrument in the context of the surrounding instrumentation. With three "keyboard" sounds (acoustic piano, Wurli e.piano, and B3 organ) this brighter right-hand region helps the gospel chords cut through. Also notice this Stereo piano is offset slightly to the Left of center giving the piano a position in the panorama of instruments. The piano is slightly left while the e.piano and organ are panned slightly Right, giving the piano a different positioning from what you feel when playing this Voice in Voice mode, where it is panned dead center.

If you've ever played in a band with multiple keyboards you learn quickly that it can be a catastrophe if you are not sensitive to the roles and parts the other two players are laying down. Positioning multiple keyboards in a mix is important to their clarity.

Hope that helps you explore what's going on.

Hello Bad Mister,

thanks a lot for your helping reply. I have played the Cp300 in a band for years and this Instrument just did his job so well.
Now I have the XF and this machine just needs a bit more professional knowhow. I like the different piano sounds from the ultimate piano collection a lot.
And to me it seems as they´re like "raw" material that can be set up for someones particular needs.
Besides the old "power grand" that I also had in my Cp300 (Grand Piano 2) all the other piano sounds on the XF need some "help" to cut through the mix of a band
or to sound richer and brighter.
You´re a professional keyboard player and sound engineer. Would you reveal YOUR favourite settings for some of different piano sounds on the XF?
Let´s say for the full concert grand, the S6, the S700 and the CP1 piano?
I know that sound is always a very subjective topic. I am just curious what YOU do with the different piano sounds on the XF!

Thanks for your reply! 😉

Thanks for the question. My story (or the part applicable here) includes getting into the recording engineering side of things so I could better communicate with the recording engineer when I was the person being recorded. I wanted to be able to intelligently talk with the studio engineer about sound.

I will be posting a three part series on Equalization and Equalizers because they remain the most powerful and important tool you have in the recording toolkit. And while there are some general do's and don'ts, there are rarely presets for EQ because it is so very dependent on the surroundings (the other 'competing' instruments). I use the word competing but must explain that while not a competition there is a tendency in sound, and music specifically, where one sound can hide or mask the frequencies of neighboring sounds. And without the eyes to "help" the untrained ear, your instrument sound can become changed by the sounds around it. Often to the point where it might get lost or become unrecognizable.

With a professional tool like the Motif XF you have an EQ at each Element, you have an EQ available to be route to (inserted) on each Waveform, and when the Voice is played there is a Master EQ to help control the deficiencies in the sound system and to compensate for the actual room you are playing in.

Fortunately, the original recording (samples) of instrument sounds in the Motif XF Wave ROM are done with great care and accuracy to deliver good balanced frequency response. The lows, minds and highs are there for you to adjust as necessary. The raw data is "flat" - meaning no unusual boosting or cutting of frequencies. If the frequency is not represented in the original recording you cannot really effectively add it later. So you want your source data to be representative of the instrument and without subjective shaping. This is done to near perfection by the engineers at the factory.

The miking technique has a lot to do with the character of a sound, and it is not a trivial thing to change the perceived microphone position - and you certainly need more than an EQ to pull that trick off. In other words, if the microphones used to record a piano note are just inches from the string and hammer, this "close miking" technique renders a completely different sound and character than if the microphones were placed several feet away. This type of microphone distance cannot be easily adjusted with simple EQ and reverb parameters. So choosing the fundamental character of a sound is important. You will not easily be able to "fake" microphone position - that sort of thing is handled with special modeling technology and techniques. In general, the sound of the Motif XF tends optoward close miking of instruments - as this is consistent with instrument emulation and synthesis techniques.

What you can do is affect the character of the individual instrument within the current mix using the "Part EQ"... this is like the EQ on each separate channel of the band's mixer or of the studio's console. You have a 3-Band parametric EQ per Part. There are no real EQ PRESETS here for good reason, you must decide upon EQ at the moment the music is combined with other instruments. A piano played as a solo instrument might have more low end boost than one playing back in tandem with an acoustic bass sound in the mix. Adding the acoustic bass to the low end will definitely change your opinion about what you want from the acoustic piano sound's low end.

I'm experienced enough to tell you that EQ is something you subjectively set... Particularly at the PART EQ stage of the instrument's tour through the signal path. The ELEMENT EQ is specifically to make the individual sample work with the other samples within the instruments Waveform set, the PART EQ is specifically to make the Voice work with the other Voices within the MIXING setup. The MASTER EQ is specifically to make the entire musical ensemble work within the room you currently playing in.

The Motif XF also gives you the ability to EQ signal that is sent to and returned from various Effect types. This is so you can tailor the "wet" (effected) sound differently. This is because in the real world low frequencies tend not to reflect off of walls... while high frequencies very much do. This explains why when you are in the room next door to the party you only hear the thump, thump of the low end instruments (which hit the wall and spread out, moving the wall) while the high frequencies hit the wall and bounce back into the room they originated in (totally blocked by the wall's surface). Low bass tends to get muddy when reverberated... So an EQ is typically provided within the Effect to remove lows from your reverb and time delay effects.

Please look for the Equalizer series, coming soon... Until then: it is always subjective and based on the surrounding instrumentation. Knowing which EQ ago use can be critical.

Hi Bad Mister,

looking forward to the EQ Series I really appreciate your reply!
Like for many others my main case is (as you may have noticed) making the piano sounds work in live situation.

Besides the CP300 I have the CP4 and have had the CP5 also. The reason why I gave the CP5 away again were the acoustic piano sounds.
I really was not able to make them sound the way I wanted. Everything else was sounding perfect on this instrument.
Everytime a solo-, trio- or bandgig came nearer I went back to my old CP300 and used the powergrand sample because it simply worked in every surroundings
(even if I just used the mono signal of it). I know that this sample is missing a lot of what a real piano can give you, but it´s very clear in sound and you can understand every note your playing.

Now it´s a bit the same with the CP4 piano sounds again. But I know now that it is on me to get more knowledge about sound, samples,
mic-positions of the samples and of cousre EQing!

Like I mentioned above I love the other piano samples on the motif (on headphones) and my objective really is to give them all a bit more of the clearity, strongness and "directness" of the powergrand sample without loosing their beautiful character. I discoverd that Yamaha uses this sample still for some of their digital pianos (YDP, CLP) and Keyboards...for good reason!;)

I you can give me some advice I would be really thankful for that!

when on the stage you are in a very bad position to EQ yourself.

If the instrument sounds fine in headphones, this is a clear indication that you are EQ'ing to make up for problems in your sound reproduction system. There are two things I can offer here:

1) get a sound system worthy of the instruments you have purchased
2) make sure when you decide about how it sounds you are not the one playing it

Here's what I mean: The piano which puts out fundamental frequencies between 27.5Hz and 4,186.01Hz and harmonics through to the limit of our hearing - this requires a sound system worthy of reproducing a clear balance of frequencies throughout the range of the ear. Most so-called keyboard amps are awful... they are not any better than guitar amps when it comes to reproducing the sound of an acoustic piano. And MONO is for those who don't really care or cannot, for logistical reasons, go with what is obviously the best system to reproduce the instrument, STEREO.

(Like playing a nine foot grand with the lid down - why would you do that???) In my opinion (I clearly state this here, opinions are personal): You are thinking about EQ'ing the piano when it is most likely the sound system that you should be EQ'ing. The CP300, the CP5, the CP4 Stage and the Motif XF all have perfectly fine pianos. Play them in headphones and you will hear. If you cannot reproduce "live" what you hear in the phones, please don't blame the piano. Your looking at the wrong end of the system.

You are, or should be, EQ'ing the speakers, make sense? This is more than semantics - buying a different keyboard is like throwing away the wrong component.

Second point: You cannot EQ a piano you are playing for the room (for the audience) while you sitting at the piano. The ideal situation for stage is for you to have a sound system for yourself (personal monitor system) and you have a feed you send to the house. In order to hear the huge difference, record a MIDI File of yourself playing the instrument.... Put it through the house system - then go walk the room. you will be totally amazed as you move 10, 20, 30 feet away how your perception of the piano sound changes. It will be so very different from you sitting on stage.

Are you using a personal monitoring system on stage? If not, then you are in the absolute worst position to be judging and EQ'ing the sound system. Trying to EQ yourself while off axis to the sound system is never going to be a good situation. It's impossible.

Even the average consumer intuitively knows where the "best seats in the house" are located - take any concert venue... and say there is open seating. Open the doors, let the crowd into the venue. WHERE do most of the people go to find seats? They head down toward the front of house and definitely seats in the center of the venue. Those who think seeing is more important than hearing - go right to the edge of the stage. Those with experience and knowledge about sound and how it travels, go several rows back from the stage and try to create an equilateral triangle with the Left and Right columns of speakers. That is the so-called "sweetspot" and is called that for a reason.

Probably the worst position: is on stage, off axis and often slightly behind the speakers. I hope you are not trying to judge your sound from the stage, while you sit off axis to the speakers. the first rule of getting good sound is as follows: Aim the speakers at the audience. If you are aiming your speakers away from yourself - you cannot tell what the sound is like.

So my recommendation (price being no object) would be to get a personal monitor system for yourself that lets you hear yourself as you desire.
Leave the EQ'ing of the venue to the sound person at the venue. A sound person will be better than you at EQing your sound - simply because they have the advantage of their POSITION in the room _ they are in front of the business end of the sound system.

If there is no sound person at the venue, then you must walk the room while a MIDI file plays your keyboard... I recommend this over having some one else play - because it should be YOU playing, this will be your chance to hear what your audience is hearing and how they are perceiving YOU. Only from out front, and only with a recording of YOU playing, can you really judge what the sound is like.

The CP300 has speakers - those being located so you are in the "sweet spot" when you sit down and play it. They act as a personal monitoring system... You are guaranteed to be in the sweet spot! The CP5, CP4 Stage, a Motif XF do not have any personal monitoring system. Get yourself one, don't skimp on your sound, you did not skimp on your piano. The list of top artist playing these products (without issue) is quite long. Don't blame the instrument if the reason is deficiencies in the sound system.

Without a discussion of your sound reproduction system, we can only talk about EQing the pianos for yourself in headphones. With headphones we eliminate the room, we eliminate the stage, we eliminate all outside influences. If the piano sound you have selected sounds good in phones, and not good in your speaker or speakers... then don't blame the piano. That's easy enough to understand. You are EQ'ing the speakers to fit the room. Buying a new piano is not always the solution - your "overall sound" is always at the mercy of the WEAKEST LINK in the chain... if you have a great keyboard (and in our opinion, you do), and you have a great sound system, but use crappy cables the result is completely torn down by the cables. If the piano is great and the cables are great but the speaker has a blown tweeter, the result is completely ruined - you have to eliminate all weak points in your signal path. All the EQ in the world will not fix a blown tweeter, or a crappy cable..

And never, never attempt to EQ off axis to your speakers. You can't do it.

Extra Credit:
Experiment: Walk behind your speaker system; you can do this with any system (home stereo, even) - EQ to what you think is right, then walk around front of the speakers and you will find you boosted the highs WAY TOO MUCH (high frequencies are highly directional... behind the speaker there are no highs... if you are "off-axis" the highs are going to be several dB down. Low frequencies tend to spread out and wander. Mid range behind the speakers, you are not hearing correctly - walk slowly around to the front of the speakers, notice how they high frequencies change as your move around... so when on the stage you are in a very bad position to EQ yourself unless you are on-axis - if you cannot see the speaker in the box, you can't eq from there! It's that simple.

BTW: The Power Grand is not used in YDP or CLP products by the way. Sorry, it's not even in the CP300. Not sure where you got that info.

Hope that helps.

My monitoringsystem for live gigs are two (!) BOSE L1 Systems (the big ones, not the compact). So I don´t play in mono!
I know that I´ve purchased a great instrument - no fear! My setup is ok! No crappy cables or things like that!
I´m using a Dynachord Mixer for EQing because I also need to have some reverb for my singing mic.

My Question is: When I play the power grand sample on the motif all the other piano sounds loose in comparism.
It is clearer, brighter and stronger! Please don´t miss my point.

I am sitting in front of two BOSE L1 Systems in big room in what you call the sweetspot.
And without any EQing or tweaking all the other piano sounds like the CP1 or the S700 seem to loose i comparism.
But with headphones they sound more like a real piano to me!

And I will eat my heat when the "Grad Piano 2" in the CP300 is not at least dammend similar to the power grand sample in the motif!!!

Here comes another Question concerning monitors on stage...

I have tried the CBR10 passive Loudspeakers and wasn´t too unhappy with the stagepas 300.
My question is: what is the right/best pair of portable loudspeakers to get all the frequencies between 27.5Hz and 4,186.01Hz reproduced in the best way?
I´m thinking about a second solution to take to smaller gigs besides my BOSE Systems...

Thanks!

I am sitting in front of two BOSE L1 Systems in big room in what you call the sweetspot.
And without any EQing or tweaking all the other piano sounds like the CP1 or the S700 seem to loose i comparism.
But with headphones they sound more like a real piano to me!

If I'm reading this correctly, and I think I am, your issue is with getting the sound you know is good to sound good in your chosen speaker system. I'm not familiar with the system you mention (I've seen it but I have never personally worked with it). The difference between the pianos may be more your personal preference more than a problem with EQ. The Power Grand earned its name because it is a piano designed to work in ensembles, it is built to cut through. It is a sample of a Yamaha CFIIIS. There is a matter of the character of the sample, the distance the microphones were from the strings, the 'in the box' resonances (Damper Resonance), versus those reflections like Reverb. And then there are those that are apart of the sound system and its design. You may simply want to bypass the SYSTEM EFFECTS completely in the XF on the other piano sounds when using your sound system.

The CP1 also is a sample of a Yamaha CFIIIS but is fashioned quite differently (just because the samples originated with the same model Yamaha acoustic grand does not mean they are going to sound and behave the same within the Motif XF... the programmers can fashion many different responses from sample data. And that is the point I am making about a piano. Sure the same source piano could be used, but what Yamaha does is a voicing session for each product that the data will be used in. Size and selection of mapping can be very different. The data in the CP300 may well be from the same source, but the programming session would undoubtedly be different.

The S700 is a completely different Yamaha acoustic piano with an entirely different tone and timbre, and is, in many ways, very different from the Power Grand. While the Power Grand is made to cut through, the S700 is singularly non-explosive, mellow, smooth, with a sweet tone. Not words that come to mind with the Power Grand. Describing these pianos is much like describing different fine wines, they all have their own personalities. The programming includes reverberation, if your sound system uses the room reflective surfaces as part of the concept, you may want to bypass the internal effects that attempt to recreate that very thing.

StagePas300 are quite old now... and would not have the same response as the current StagePas 600i or even the StagePas 400i... significant difference in the newer models. Yamaha CBR speakers are passive speakers - what did you power them with?

I would recommend something in the DXR range. Yes, they are a bit more money, but as powered speakers go I find them really compelling. They come in 8s, 10s, 12s and 15s.

The DXR8 are scary good. There size belies their power and clarity
The DXR10 are even better.

Plenty of smooth clean power at 1100 Watts a side, (700W Continuous), 129dB SPL and 131 SPL respectively - they rock! They are High Fidelity powered loudspeakers.

For smaller gigs a pair of either of these will do the gig with style and grace.
Who knows, you may prefer them over your current rig.

Thanks again you for your reply and patience!

You´re right that all the piano sounds are completly different in tone and character.
I will try to work on them in order to make them cut through better.
To answer your question: I powered the CBR speakers with a DYNACORD powermate 600.

I am really thankful that YAMAHA customers can take advantage of your professional support!