So, my question is: Was there an easier way to re-organize all the Waveforms I had in Flash so I could have them in the order I wanted? Maybe I just missed it because I had a lot going on, but I couldn't figure out another way other than deleting them and re-loading them.

There is absolutely no benefit or advantage to re-organizing the Waveforms on your Flash Board. The XF places the data on the Flash Board by finding the lowest numbered empty location. It then creates a catalog based on where it places them and it re points the Voice data to this new location. You gain nothing by reordering the Waveforms manually (other than you can gain an appreciation of all the XF does when LOAD a file.)

The design concept is to allow the XF to keep track of *where* the data is -so you don't have to go through the progress of manually repointing your Voice's Elements to the appropriate Waveform. The concept is let the XF place the Waveforms, because as it does so, it automatically creates a "catalog" and because you are loading VOICES the Voice data is dynamically *repointed* to the location of the Waveform on YOUR custom list. It is VERY important to create a backup file whenever you create a change to your Flash Board. Because your Waveform list is unique to YOUR XF. Immediately it is different from the file you loaded it from. The author of the File's first Waveform goes to Waveform 0001, your XF may find that location already occupied... It looks for the lowest numbered empty location, and places the Waveform there, it then changes the data on the Voice's OSCILLATOR screen of every Voice it loads that uses this Waveform data to reflect the Waveform Number where it placed the data. (It is far too tedious to do this manually, far too easy to make a mistake... )

Again there is no need to, and no real advantage to manually re-organizing your Waveforms. I recommend you spend your time on other endeavors, and forget about organizing your Waveforms in groups by number.
Just make sure you backup YOUR data. Your back File contains your unique Waveform List.

The Melas Waveform Editor would be the only way (if it is an OCD thing about having them in a specific order) 🙂 But to paraphrase the title of the Shakespeare play ... Much to do to gain not so much

Can I connect USB on the PSR to USB on the Motif and use the PSR as a MIDI controller? Or...connect USB on the PSR to MIDI on the Motif? Or will the PSR even work at all as a MIDI controller?

You never mention which PSR you own, so cannot answer that last question. USB is just a cable that connects your PSR to a computer. It cannot be connected directly from the PSR to another keyboard. It must connect TO HOST... The "host" is a computer.

So you can connect the PSR to your computer, and then you can "echo" (also called "thru") the MIDI messages to the XF.
You'll need the appropriate Yamaha USB-MIDI driver for your computer type and operating system.
A DAW, like Cubase, can re-route the MIDI message.

DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP > MIDI > MIDI PORT SETUP > make sure you mark the PSR as one of your Inputs in the "In 'All MIDI Inputs'" column, along with Motif XF's main MIDI PORT (port 1).
Create a MIDI TRACK, set the MIDI OUT to the Motif XF. Now when you play either keyboard you can trigger the XF tone engine. The MIDI CH will determine which PART(s) will respond.

You'll want to set MIDI LOCAL CONTROL = OFF on both the PSR and XF so that you can choose with the DAW which instrument is going to sound.

Hope that is helpful.

Thanks Phil. Yes, I will admit it was something of an OCD thing with regard to the Wafevorms and how they were ordered in Flash. I realize this was unnecessary, but I think I wanted to go through the exercise if only to try something I had not done before...and well, didn't really need to do anyway. I was very careful about cataloging each element in each Voice and which Waveform was used. So, if anything I learned a little more about Editing Voices. It was in fact "much to do to gain not so much" - thanks for the funny anecdote!

I'm still not sure I understand why some of the Waveforms were duplicated when I loaded the Vintage Yamaha Synth Voices. Any idea why that might have happened? When using the "delete same name waveforms" job function, will it only delete Waveforms that are not used? I thought, well, if it loaded the Waveforms then a Voice must use the additional Waveform. Maybe that's really what bothered me, not so much the order of the Waveforms. Just felt like things were getting messy.

I had the keyboard put away, so I couldn't remember the model. It's a PSR E423. I have the full version of Cubase 8, so I'll give the setup you described a try. Thanks for your explanation on the setup procedure.

Still excited about hearing about when you plan to do a workshop, seminar or some sort of interactive discussion. My preference would be to attend a hands-on workshop taught by you, of course!

Best,
Brian

One more thing I didn't think to ask; I currently have my Motif connected to my computer via FireWire and I use that connection for Total Librarian and Cubase. Obviously the PSR E423 will need to be connected to the computer with a USB type B to USB type A. Do I need to then run a USB cable from the computer to the Motif, or can I use the FireWire connection for that?

Thanks,
Brian

I'm still not sure I understand why some of the Waveforms were duplicated when I loaded the Vintage Yamaha Synth Voices. Any idea why that might have happened? When using the "delete same name waveforms" job function, will it only delete Waveforms that are not used? I thought, well, if it loaded the Waveforms then a Voice must use the additional Waveform. Maybe that's really what bothered me, not so much the order of the Waveforms. Just felt like things were getting messy.

to understand exactly when the XF 'decides' to duplicate the Waveform is going to take you to that level where you want to be... It is not so much the Library that you are loading, but the File you are loading it from.

Telling me you loaded the "Vintage Yamaha Synth Voices" is less important than telling me whether it was from the original File or from one you made with YOUR XF. File's made with YOUR XF have a different 'catalog' than the original.

Here are the key concepts:
_ You are ultimately constructing a custom Wave ROM. It is an extension to the Preset Wave ROM.
_ when you make a File it will contain the catalog of your custom Wave List...

When restoring the Voices from the Library in question, which catalog did you ask the XF to read from... The one that documents the original author's XF, or Your XF? If it is from your XF, when you ask it to Load those Voices, it finds a match for the Waveform Name and it will not duplicate the Waveform. If, however, it was from the original file of that Library... It does not contain Your catalog, it contains the author's XF list. So loading the Voice data from that file will cause your XF to load everything it finds necessary to make your load instructions work. It simple installs the Waveform information to the end of the list (or lowest numbered empty location). The Voices will be re-pointed to these new number locations.

Only Your Files will have your catalog (Waveform List).
And every one of your Files will have a record of where to look to find the Waveform data.

Once you have installed data to your Flash Board, every file you make will document where your data is placed. Making the original file something you need to "put away" from Your files (drag into a long term backup folder named "Original Libraries") this way you will not accidentally create duplicates. Keep it in case you ever want to rebuild your Flash Board from scratch.

EXTRA CREDIT: my tip is, any time you are getting ready to LOAD a File to your XF, stop and ask yourself: "Do I need or want to add new data to my Flash Board?"

On most everyday situations you probably do not. It is only on that special occasion when you've purchased or downloaded a NEW Library, that you require to make changes to your custom Wave ROM. so get used to recognizing that you will want to set the LOAD OPTIONs in the lower right side of the FILE screen:
FL1 > None
FL2 > None

"None" is the number of changes you are going to make to these Flash Boards.

I'm sure you thought you were just restoring the Voice data when you went to reload the Vintage library, but unless you instructed your XF to NOT change anything about your Flash Boards, it will always do what it must to make what you are loading, play. If you feel that the data should already be documented in your XF's internal catalog, then make sure your FLASH options are set to "None".

"None" literally means the number of changes that will be made to your Waveform List and your Flash Board memory.

And make sure when "restoring" Voices, it must be from one of your Files.
Your Files have your catalog, not some one else's.

Ultimately, your Waveform List will appear in every ALL data and ALL VOICE file you make.
If you fail to create your own Files you will lose touch with the Samples occupying the board

One more thing I didn't think to ask; I currently have my Motif connected to my computer via FireWire and I use that connection for Total Librarian and Cubase. Obviously the PSR E423 will need to be connected to the computer with a USB type B to USB type A. Do I need to then run a USB cable from the computer to the Motif, or can I use the FireWire connection for that?

if you are already connected via FW, use that for your XF.

Thanks Phil, very useful information.

To be clear, I was loading a new Voice Library.

Maybe I don't understand some important terminology here. But I do know that when I loaded the Voice library in question, it was from the creator's file. I also knew at the time that the Voices were originally in the creator's USER 1 Voice bank. I think I should be very specific about the Voice Library I loaded. It was the "Yamaha Vintage Analog" library from eSoundz. The instructions for loading are very limited, almost non-existent. So, in order to understand what I was loading, I loaded individual Voices into my USER Ram and auditioned each voice. I did not want to simply load an ALL file and overwrite everything I had in my USER Voice banks as well as everything else in my Motif.

So, I was not restoring Voices, I was loading Voices and they all contained Sample data. I knew I needed to load the Sample Data to Flash if I wanted to keep it and that was how I proceeded.

I discovered along the way that while most Voices used Waveforms that were specific to the Voice that was being emulated (like the GX-1), some of the Voices used Waveforms from different Vintage Synths, like the CS80 and SK50D. In the latter case it was a CS80 pad Voice with SK50D Strings. So, what happened when I loaded the various Voices, was that occasionally a Waveform would be duplicated. I expect this was due to the fact that I was loading from the Library creator's file and also with the order in which I loaded the Voices, but I had to take a stab at it to see what happened. Again, I did not wish to simply load the entire bank of Voices, although that really might have been the best approach. In 20 20 hindsight, I suppose I could have used Total Librarian to re-organize my Voices. Some things are easier to see after the fact.

While the first reason for loading to USER Ram was to audition the Voices to determine exactly what I was loading and also which Voices I wanted to load, the second reason was to determine the size of the Waveform data for each Voice so I could decide which Flash Board I wanted to load them to. Not all the Sample data would have fit on my FL1. I have two 1GB Flash Boards installed, and I wanted to load the majority of the Waveforms to FL1, with the remaining Waveforms (which were smaller in size) to FL2. As it turned-out, I ended up with 1MB of space on FL1 and really maximized the available space on both boards. Again, not being an expert on this, it was what made sense to me at the time. Since the instructions did not list any of the Waveforms, I now have a complete catalog of all Voices and their corresponding Waveforms. I would like to feel that I learned at least something during this process. And now I have the information that I think the creator of the Library should have provided all along.

I have in fact, tried to restore Voices from my own All file, and it works exactly as you described. And I do know to select 'none' for FL1 and FL2 if there is no new data is written to Flash. Your recommendation of creating an "original file" that I put away so I can re-build my Flash Boards if necessary is an excellent idea.

Thanks again,
Brian

Also meant to respond to your comment regarding FireWire. Yes, I'll use that from my computer to my Motif. Does that mean I don't need the USB MIDI drive anymore? Or do I still need that in order to recognize the PSR E423?

Does that mean I don't need the USB MIDI drive anymore? Or do I still need that in order to recognize the PSR E423?

If you are talking about the USB-MIDI Driver... yes, that will be used by the PSR-E423 which is connected to your computer via USB. The Motif XF will use the Yamaha Sternberg FW Driver for both MIDI and Audio.

The Driver is what translates what the keyboard is doing so the computer can understand it. The PSR will be addressing the computer via its Yamaha USB-MIDI driver and the Motif XF will be addressing the computer via the YSFW driver.

In Cubase:
Go to DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP > MIDI > MIDI PORT SETUP > Here in the final column "In 'All MIDI Inputs'", you will mark the devices you want to use as your Controllers: You will find an option for the Yamaha PSR-E423 (Port 1) USB connection, and you will find the Yamaha Motif XF MAIN _ FW connection _ those are your two INPUT devices.

Do not mark any other items in this column. This column is strictly for the PORTS that will be delivering musical performance data to a MIDI Track.
Specifically DO NOT mark: "Motif XF Remote" This is for REMOTE CONTROL commands and has a separate setup Folder. DO NOT mark: "Motif XF MIDI IN" (unless you connect an external device to the Motif XF's 5-pin MIDI IN.

When you create a MIDI track the MIDI INPUT line will default to: 'ALL MIDI INPUTS' _ this refers to what you have marked in the IN ALL MIDI INPUTS column (described above)... meaning you can use either keyboard or both simultaneously. You should set LOCAL CONTROL = OFF in each... this way it is Cubase that determines which device is going to sound. You select the device that will sound by setting the MIDI OUT of that Cubase MIDI Track.

MIDI IN = ALL MIDI INPUT
MIDI OUT = Motif XF Main
CH 1

...means that playing either keyboard will trigger the Motif XF on the MIDI channel set for the Cubase MIDI Track (Channel 1)