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Motif XS: save song as midi with setup in file header

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I noticed somebody do this with a Yamaha Genos in a YouTube video (at around 6:00 time):

https://youtu.be/KeS6f0eG1WI

He recorded a performance, saved the MIDI file, and when he opened it on another sequencer the instrument setup information was already there in the tracks.

Can the Motif XS do the same with a recorded song? If so, could you please advise how? I tried once already but when I opened the file on my sequencer (QY700) there was no setup information in the tracks.

(By setup information i mean bank, patch, volume, pan and so on per track).

Thanks,

Michael

 
Posted : 05/10/2018 12:54 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Keyboards that are XG/GM compatible (like the Genos, QY700, etc.,) work with a protocol where sounds are selected from a List of 128 Program Changes for so-called Normal Voices, and a list of Program Changes for 8 Drum Kit Voices. Each product that is XG/GM compatible follows a particular set of rules. Instead of storing individual Voices on board the product, offsets to edit parameters are stored as MIDI coded messages in a Measure tagged on to the front of the music file.

In this Setup Measure are the GM RESET command, followed by Bank Select/Program Change, Parameter Change and Control Change messages that are responsible for recreating the settings as they are for each song... these include the instrument selected, the volume, the pan position, the effect send amounts, filter settings, Amplitude settings, pitch bend range, tuning, etc., etc., etc. The GM RESET is first.

It’s job is to return all 16 Parts to Normal Program 001 (Concert Grand), except Part 10 which recalls the first GM Drum Kit Voice. As you build a song on these type keyboards you are selecting from that list of 128 Normal instruments or 8 Drum Kits. Now you may notice that the Genos (and more expensive models) have many more and different sounds than say the QY700 or QY100... but because of the way the XG/GM System works, all that follow the protocol have an Acoustic Bass Sound as Program Change #33 on the list. When you send a Bank Select message 000/000 is used with a Program Change 33, each XG/GM device knows to recall an Acoustic Bass. And all will have a “Fingered Electric Bass” at #34... and so on...

Now the Genos may have 50 or hundred different Finger E. Bass sounds... each as Program #34, but each with a different MSB/LSB Bank Select code. So say you use a fancy Alembic or Music Man bass on the Genos - when you play the file on the QY700 it may not have that fancy Bass, so when it “sees” the MSB/LSB Bank Select and it doesn’t have the fancy Bass it “knows” to simply substitute the Fingered E Bass sound found in the 000/000 Bank ... the one it does have. It will substitute the Finger EBass from the standard lGM Bank. This scalability is built into the system. It’s a concept.

This allows XG/GM Sound sets to be made in devices as inexpensive as a handheld synth to a multi-thousand dollar Digital Arranger Workstation. Each follows the same general list and strict rules, but each can be as simple or as complex as the manufacturer wants to make it.

They all follow the same protocol of storing the edits made to each Mixing setup as coded messages in that Setup Measure. So that when you start playback it “edits” the receiving Tone Generator right then!

Okay that’s a brief background on the GM/XG system and how it works.

Gear like the Yamaha Synthesizers allow the user to create their own Voices from scratch, and independently store those edited changes to individually recallable Voice programs. No strict rules, no rules that if it doesn’t fit into the listed framework you can’t use it... total sonic freedom - no limits. No Setup Measure is needed because when you recall your bass sound it contains all the edits to the creation of the Voice... no need to write out each and every change/edit to the effect processors, or coded messages to edit the sound. That all gets stored locally when you press the [STORE] button. You can then reuse that Voice in a hundred different songs ... All changes/edits made to the instrument sounds and their Mixing set..can be stored in individual Voices and then your collection of instruments is stored in a [MIXING] program that gets linked within the product to your Song (MIDI) data. These products have enough of the type of expensive internal storage memory to store hundreds of your own sounds fully customized right on board. If the sound doesn’t fit into the 16 Category, 8 in each Category GM listing it will not matter you have freedom from the rules...

Instead of the Setup Measure all settings for Synthesizer’s Tone Generator are stored in the so-called MIXING. Not in the Sequence Track Data.

You will notice that each SONG on the Motif XF recalls its own MIXING setup. Each PATTERN recalls its own MIXING setup.
The type of programmable memory that stores all these hundreds of parameters per Voice right on board. As we explained, all GM/XG device’s Reset to a known value for all parameters, and only those you change from the default are documented in the Setup Measure.

This makes all editable synths, like the Motif XS/XF, with this type of internal memory storage a bit more expensive. You actually can edit and store each edit within each program. Contrasted with the GM protocol which can be made so inexpensive that you find GM soundsets just about anywhere - nothing need be stored in the GM product, it can rely on the Setup Measure. Just because you CAN make GM soundsets inexpensive, it does not mean they have to sound crappy... obviously, it’s up to the manufacturer how and what they place at Normal Program #34... For example, all GM/XG module’s have an Acoustic Grand at Program #1... but among the Program Change #1 on the Genos is a beautiful Yamaha CFX, a Bosendorfer Imperial, etc., etc. just with a different MSB/LSB Bank Selection. It does not mean, however, if you use the CFX or Bosendorfer when you Sequence on the Genos, that it will recall a CFX or Bosendorfer when you play the file on the QY700 (it's magic but it ain’t that magical)... but it is scalable.

What you ask for exists. You can create your sounds, even create your own sampled instruments... you can edit each and every sound - you’re not limited to the protocol... and when you save your data to a Motif XF SONG or ALL data file, everything you did is documented in that file. Including any custom samples you created or loaded. And you can take it to any other Motif XF on the planet and play it back.

And if you used a CFX Concert Grand, or the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand it will play back with that exact sound (no substitutes) but of course it is not scaleable - you must play it back on an equivalent hardware... this means a Motif XF

It’s a trade off but one that professionals demand. So this begs the question... What if I want to move my Sequence from the Motif XF to another Sequencer... then play it back on a non-Motif XF Tone Generator. Can I?

Yes. You can save the data you recorded to the Track (that is the data made while the red Record light is lit) as a Standard MIDI File (SMF) This creates a .mid that can be read by any Sequencer. But of course, the Tone Generator you select to play it back will not know what sound you used, how loud it was, where you panned it, how much Reverb Send was used, are the filters open or closed, etc., etc., etc.

You can create your own Setup Measure using the Data List Booklet, a magnifying glass, and your favorite adult beverage!
What the GM/XG device does when you export the Mix...
What the pro Synth does behind the scenes when save a proprietary XF File
You now have to manually input... each and every edit manually. Yikes!

The focus of the pro synth is your music exactly as you selected the sounds and edited it.
The focus of the GM/XG protocol is your music made scaleable to the device playing it back.. it may not be exactly what you intended but it will be darned close... on each compatible device.

If you really wanted everyone to hear and appreciate the Bosendorfer program you used you want them to hear it back on THAT sound... when made “scaleable” if the GM chip in my phone only has a tiny acoustic piano at Program #1, well, at least its a piano.

Do you see the different focus?
Can you appreciate the amount of designing necessary to support each concept... can you appreciate what goes into making each work *for* the musician... and why each has its own place. Specific MIDI versus General MIDI (haha)...

Take your Motif XF Sequence... and save it as a Standard MIDI File .mid format... this will be able to load into any MIDI compatible Sequencer.
If you Load it to the QY700 it will play the file. Wrong instrument though...

You will need to manually assign the instruments, Track by Track.
You are going to be doing a REMIX, literally.

Hope that helps... thanks for the question.

 
Posted : 05/10/2018 3:26 pm
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Topic starter
 

Many thanks for this very detailed answer.

I have worked a reasonable amount with XG and it's helpful to have the different approach of motif programming sketched out so clearly.

I apologize as i should have specified from the outset that i was interested in using my qy700 to play the MIDI file but always still using the Motif XS as the tone generator.

To do this and have the qy700 recall all the correct MIXING information on the motif XS, would the only practical approach, then, be to record a sysex dump from the Motif to the QY at the start of the sequence?

Thank you again for your time.

Michael

 
Posted : 05/10/2018 10:10 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

To do this and have the qy700 recall all the correct MIXING information on the motif XS, would the only practical approach, then, be to record a sysex dump from the Motif to the QY at the start of the sequence?

That would certainly guarantee it. The advantage being that all of the data is in one place... in one file.

The other option is to manually store the setups in each product (the Song Mixing Setup in the XS and the Sequence data in the QY) and then manually recreate the link - you might be able to align them using MIDI “SONG SELECT” protocol. SONG 1 in the QY would recall the SONG 1 Setup in the XS.

It’s been a couple of decades since I worked with a QY700, I’m pretty sure that would work. You simply set the XS in Song Mode, and when you change a Song on the QY the XS should jump to the same number 01-64. The disadvantage is that you wind up with two separate Files, one for each device. The advantage is once setup, the start of each Song would be instant... no waiting for a bulk to transfer (as quick as that is, some folks think two seconds is an eternity with musical transitions) so your mileage will vary.

Those are at least a couple of options... hope that helps.

Love that QY700 awesome, ahead of its time...

 
Posted : 07/10/2018 3:00 pm
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