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Bad Mister - thanks for responding, and thanks for all of your help to all the Yamaha supporters and users over the years. It's a good article, but doesn't specifically state that the XF8 can take "full" advantage of all that additional memory. It does say we are still limited to the number of samples on the card but, at least in theory, we could store the same number of *larger* samples on the Mutec cards IF the XF8 actually recognizes the additional space on the 2GB cards in each slot. I have not found anyone anywhere that has confirmed this yet. All said, it pains me to have to go outside of Yamaha to get a 2GB flash expansion card, but here we are. I'll date myself by stating my first Yamaha keyboard was an SY77 (double yikes). My, how far we have come since then. 😉

Your mileage will vary. And that is the whole point (and beauty) of Flash... You get to choose what Waveforms you install on your instrument.

The maximum number of Waveforms per FLASH BOARD slot is 2,048
The total maximum of Samples per Flash Board is 8,192
The maximum for each Board is approximately 2MB less than its listed size, for example, 510MB for a 512MB Board, 1022MB for a 1024MB Board and so on.

This is all based on a whichever-comes-first basis. If you reach 2,048 Waveforms before you reach the maximum size of the board, your instrument will report full. If you reach 8,192 Samples before you reach the maximum size, your instrument will report full, and so on.

Your question stressing the "full" in full advantage will depend on what YOU choose to populate your Board with... Remember, a Waveform can contain as few as a single Sample (like a snare drum), or as many as 256 Samples. Again it depends on what you choose to install to Flash.

I equate it to like going to a smorgasbord - don't let your eyes be bigger than your stomach. Loading every piano sound available for the XF and then never playing them would be a foolish use of the memory. Only install the Waveforms for VOICES you actually decide you will play.

There are 3,977 Waveforms in the factory WAVE ROM.
Yamaha is allowing XF owners to select 4,096 (across the FL1 and FL2) Waveforms for their own custom WAVE ROM.

Important things to consider when pondering this subject
There are probably tons of Waveforms in the Factory Wave ROM that you never, ever use. Remember this fact and keep it in mind when installing data to your Boards.
You will only (if you're smart) install Waveforms that support Voices you *will* actually use.
As an example, the "S700 for XS" piano is about 32MB, just 3 Waveforms, but 270 Samples
And to show you how pianos can vary, the "CP1 Grand" is about 45MB, 7 Waveforms, and 798 Samples
The "Power Grand" is 2.4MB, 1 Waveform and 40 Samples
Libraries can vary tremendously (size of data, I've found, has little to do with whether or not a Voice is a favorite or not... In fact, I'd put the little Power Grand up against some libraries that are hundreds of MB in size, it's all in the sound engine, the programming, and the approach to playing it. A Voices playability is key.

I meet and talk with a lot of XF owners who have installed the entire "Inspiration in a Flash" content, even though they never, ever use some of the Voices that some of the Waveforms support. I ask them, "Why?" Usually, it's because they either have not figured out how it works or they think it's too much work to go through the Library, pick out the Voices they like and then install just those Waveforms necessary to make them sound. (Lazy)... I guess.

I usually walk them through a Flash session. It's like picking out a new instrument, or hiring a new band member, take your time. Each Voice is YOUR choice. If you like the Voice keep its Waveforms, if not ... Get rid of it!!!

To answer your "'full' advantage" point, you'd need to tell me about how *you* plan to use your Wave ROM...

See, this is why you are BAD MISTER. You not only answer the question/concern/problem, you turn it into a "teachable moment". All of your points are valid, and I agree that we should make good decisions and use the available space thoughtfully. Coming from the engineering world, I was looking at this a little differently: can the XF8 recognize and make available the 1GB additional space on the 2GB Mutec board? A different hardware example which you may have used or seen is installing a 16GB RAM board in a computer that can only take a 8GB RAM board; the additional space is unused and not even visible to the computer. So that was the direction I was coming from.

Taking this one step further, let's use the example of a 2GB Mutec board which has 1000 waveforms on it, and they occupy 1022MB of (file)space. If I tried to copy another waveform which is 5MB in size to the board, would the XF8 allow it, or would it say the board is full - even though it is technically half full? To me this would depend on whether or not the XF8 can recognize that additional 1024MB available on the board in that slot. This is the intent of my original question.

Venturing into the ridiculous, suppose someone comes up with a 16GB board that they say is compatible with the XF8. Would the answer still be the same as with the 2GB board? Assuming the limitations for wave/sample thresholds have not been exceeded, is there any limit that the XF8 has on recognizing the additional available space on any future expansion board, no matter what the size? With technology advancing at such a rapid rate, has Yamaha anticipated this potential scenario?

Thanks, Bad Mister.

I'm sorry, I cannot go with you on your venture into the ridiculous. I would rather remain here in the potentially possible. If you care to test that, if and when someone comes out with an 8 or 16GB Board, please be sure to come back and let us know. 🙂

I'm sure there is some theoretical limit to the size space that the instrument will look at... Since no one has an 8GB or 16GB board, it would be impossible for me to give you an answer. Before that limit would be reached, however, the limit of patience of the average musician would certainly be reached. So the exercise is pure theoretical, with no practical side. Remember the human in all of this (the musician).

I talk with end users who like to always take things to the theoretical limits... Just because you can put 256 Samples in a Waveform doesn't mean you should. it might seem like the thing to do to place a different stereo sample at each velocity unit, but really, is it?

Check your song data, have you ever hit a snare drum in a song or pattern where the velocity was 10, 50, even 60... Probably not. I've talked with long time Motif owners who never knew that many of the snare drums in the Kits are 4- and 5-way velocity switching snares... Because they only hit the snare at maximum and have never even heard the four or five different snares hits contained in that Waveform. Why create a 126 other samples if all you do is hit the snare drum as hard as you can? Imagine the velocity levels of piano... Now without giving away too many secrets .. There is a limit to the number of velocity swaps that make sense in sampling a piano... Sure I could make (and advertise to great acclaim), a piano sampled, each note, and each note sampled at hundred velocities. At the end of the day this does not guarantee a smooth playing piano (not at all). But you know many would buy it based on the sheer spec of the size. ("It must be the shoes...")

Burning your own Wave ROM has been discussed since early days of sampling, heck you could do it back in 1991 on an SY99 where you add 5, count them, 5 expansion boards... 512kb each. Not a typo 512K, you got 512 free and could add (5x512kb) 2.5MB for a total of 3MB of custom data. The 512kb of memory back then cost about $400 but for those that needed/wanted custom Wave ROM that was heaven. Not for your casual user (obviously), but Yamaha has always pushed the envelope.

I bring that bit of history up to make the point, when you want to increase the original storage space four or eight times what was originally on offer, not only does it get impractical from a $$$ but, since technology is, as you say, moving fast.... Say you did spend $500+ for a 2GB board, just what would an 8 or 16GB board sell for? By the time you saved up and waited to back up your 16GB or 32GB file, your friends would already be enjoying the (next) new model synth that had all that built in... For far, far less money than you invested! And in theory it would be far, far faster... See my point? You could but why? Or do you still want to go down that rabbit hole?

I do enjoy a good theoretical discussion, but...
🙂

(If I get a chance next week, I'll ask engineering if there is a known limit... I know, I don't know)

Hi Jeff,

Bad Mister is spot on with his explanations, so I don't have much to add. But you might also want to check out these threads on motifator.com:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/472270/
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/472271/

Skip to the more recent posts for the best and most accurate information and feel free to contact me if you have any further questions at j.david [AT] mutec-net.com

Best regards,
Julian David

Marketing for MUTEC GmbH

I think staying with Yamaha branding is best for us here.
That being said, and knowing Yamaha products. If there was a chance to expand their own 1gb board to 2gb, whether they did it, or associated with a third party,
...they would have by now, and priced it competitively too, about double the 1gb.
If anyone uses back-lines suppliers carrying their own flash, we're used to crawling under and XF to switch them out. No problem.
The implied convenience of a 2gb board would only be in the absence of two 1g's....and if 2gbs would successfully 'point to' the correct voices of an XF correctly should be the deciding experiment.
I could buy two 1g Yamaha boards( per slot on an XF )that would be only $500 per slot. *approx. using $259 per.
Even Motivator's Shop has them for $299.
Our thanks to Julian David for the honesty.
Now watch our favorites at Yamaha get a deal with Mutec offering conclusive data with respect to proper functionality....even if not with current synths,
but with the newest and latest greatest.(yet to be released)
There's my 'Futuristic' remark for this most theoretical thread! :-))