Is it possible to use the XF as an audio / MIDI interface via USB and still use the MIDI in on the XF for the WX7?

No. the Motif XF (2010) transmits MIDI only via USB. It cannot transmit audio via USB - it predates that capability by a few years.

The XF can do both MIDI and audio via FireWire. This requires the Yamaha FW16E expansion board - which turns the XF into a 16-in/6-out audio interface via FireWire. This means you can route your internal XF Parts (including the A/D Input Part) on any of 16 audio buses to the computer. The computer can return audio to the XF on three separate stereo audio pairs: the "Main L&R" will feed your Studio Monitor speakers, the second pair can be a separate mix for a headphone amplification system (Asgn L&R), and the third stereo pair can be routed back to the internal XF mixer and/or to the XF's Integrated Sampler (FW L&R).

When using the FW16E and connecting to a computer via FW, the A/D Input acts as a potential Audio Input to your DAW. You can route a mono or a stereo signal through the XF, applying its own dual insert effects and send the audio discreetly to the computer.

On the MIDI side, anything connected to the 5-pin MIDI jacks will be seen in the DAW as a separate MIDI Port In/Out. The XF itself will use the "Main" MIDI Port, the second Port is used for Automation of the DAW software, and a separate port for the 5-pin external MIDI device. So you will be able to route the WX7 wherever you require... to other VST synths, back to the XF tone generator, record its data to its own MIDI track, etc. routing is advanced and very, very flexible!

The Motif ES (2003-2007) used the mLAN (true networking) FireWire protocol. Around 2007 computer operating systems dealing with FW audio transitioned to a 'peer-to-peer' relationship with external audio devices; The Motif XS (2007-2010) spanned the transition from true networking (mLAN) to the newer peer-to-peer FireWire audio protocol. The XS used the next generation interface, called the "mLAN16e2" (obsoleting the mLAN16e).

The Motif XS spanned the transition period - it could use either the old mLAN or it could be setup to use the newer FireWire peer-to-peer protocol. This required the second generation "mLAN16e2" expansion board. Finally the transition was complete by the time the Motif XF (2010) arrived. It only uses the newer FireWire peer-to-peer protocol and requires the "FW16E" expansion board.

The mLAN16e cannot be used.

The Motif XF must use the FW16E. By using the FW16E as your audio/MIDI interface you get the benefit of a discreet MIDI Port for the WX7, plus the benefit of multiple audio outputs (16) from the XF tone generator to the computer. Instead of just connecting audio as you are now via the XF's analog Outs, you'll be able to take advantage of multiple audio outs.

You mention you are using MTC, are you sync'ing to film?
I ask because if not, you could benefit from using standard MIDI Clock instead (far more forgiving when it comes to merged signals)... MTC is MIDI Clock configured for use with film. Each device runs independently on its own clock, tempos can be set independently - this is used when synchronizing a musical cue and a screen event so they can occur at a specific point in time... the big drum roll and cymbal crash must occur at a specific camera frame, with MTC you adjust the tempo of a segment of music so that they arrive at that critical point together. If you are not Sync'ing to film, you'll be better off using just standard MIDI clock.

Hope that helps. If you have other questions let us know.

Thank you for your most comprehensive reply.

It looks like firewire option is the way to go, but they are still very expensive here in the UK and the only type firewire cards I have seen for my laptop are the PCMCIA type which I use, none of the later laptops have the PCMCIA slot :(.

The only sync options available in Reaper are LTC and MTC, MTC works very well and lets me control the DAW from the transport controls on the XF, makes a huge difference that I don't have to fiddle with the laptop during gigs, I've also configured the master section on the XF to send control codes to the DAW that changes the current song on the laptop and selects the song on the XF (lots of help from Motifator!)

The reason I need an audio component in the setup (from the DAW), is that some songs have some backing vocals which would be difficult to emulate on the XF, I can record these vocals directly into a new track and have them play back immediately without having to transfer them over to the keyboard, for each song played on the DAW, I would have a song set up on the XF sequencer contaiing only my control codes to change voices on MIDI 1, and send a click track to the drummer via an alternative audio output sent on MIDI 16.

For the moment at least, can you suggest a way I can get the WX7 working?, the only thing I can think of is to use a MIDI thru that allows MTC, I have three MIDI merge boxes here but none of them work with MTC. I am a far better sax player than I am a keyboard player, so using my WX7 is pretty much essential :).

Many thanks

For the moment at least, can you suggest a way I can get the WX7 working?

I see you have quite a lot going on. I would normally strongly recommend the FW16E route but truly cannot because the more time that goes by the farther in the rear view mirror FW cards become - and unless I could recommend a specific FW card that was still available and still reasonably priced...and so on. Seven years ago the FW16E recommendation would solve your issue 100%. But as I'm sure you know the FW connection as a protocol is in the rear view mirror for the computer makers, and stores that stock FW adapters.

I don't know Reaper, but it does not sound right that it would have MTC and not do standard MIDI Clock. Please verify that. I'd be surprised if that is the case, most gear does not do MTC, while just about anything with a clock is going to have standard MIDI Clock. Your not using MTC for the film cueing function so you are not taking advantage of the separate tempo type sync so you can use standard MIDI Clock sync and you will find it far more forgiving than MTC when merging Signal.

Solving the Transport control issue would be the other thing. The Motif XF can send its Transport Control commands via MIDI and you should be able to setup that same kind of Remote Control function (again, I don't know the specifics in Reaper, but if it accepts Transport Control commands, there should be a way to configure them via MIDI (same as you would when using MTC) including fast forward, rewind, locate, stop, start, continue etc.

Hi, apologies, Reaper is actually sending MIDI Clock to the output, this is set up in the main preferences which I had forgotten about, the MTC / LTC is set up per song as a specific track, but this does work very well, the song on the DAW and the song playing on the internal XF sequencer sync up perfectly with no issues. The transport control also works perfectly, it lets me play, pause, rewind both the internal XF song and the DAW seamlessly as a single song.

The only issue I have at the moment is that I don't have a spare MIDI IN for the WX7 ...

Many thanks

Okay, I have a suggestion that will work if you have a USB port available on your computer.

The Motif XF has a MIDI interface built-in when you connect to a computer via FW or/USB and it can handle its own data (Port 1) and the Data of one external device (Port 3) that is connected to its 5-pin MIDI jacks.

What you'll need:
Download and install the "Yamaha USB-MIDI driver" for your computer operating system; http://download.yamaha.com
Connect the USB "To Host" port to an available USB Port on your computer, set the MIDI I/O = USB
[UTILITY] > [F5] CONTROL > [SF2] MIDI
Connect the MIDI Out of the WX7 to the MIDI In of the Motif XF.

Now when you play the Motif XF Keyboard it will be seen by the computer DAW as "Yamaha Motif XF-1" (Port 1) and notes and Control data from the WX7 would be seen by the DAW as "Yamaha Motif XF-3" (Port 3)

Hi, sounds interesting, I will try it today

Thanks

Woohoo, that seems to have done it!.

I createed a new track in Reaper, armed the track and routed a send to track one (MTC) from the WX7 track (MIDI 3), also turned on record monitoring. Any voice now playing on MIDI 1 in the loaded song on the XF, the WX will play the assigned voice. The WX7 also plays as normal in voice mode, which I am really pleased about, I thought "MIDI IN" to the XF would only work via a return from Reaper when MIDI is switched to USB on the XF, which is obviously not the case.

It's a huge advantage to me as well that I can get the XF sequenced song to change voices on the fly via embedded program changes, it saves a lot of hassle as I play tenor and alto saxes, wind synth, keyboard, harmonica and do the sound for my band. I need more money lol.

Your help is truly appreciated!