The Velo Growl Legato voice (PRE5 A10) has a tremolo that I'd like to edit and get rid of. But I can't figure out how. I found the LFO section, but changing things seemed to have no effect. Any pointers?

The Voice "Velo Growl Legato", as the name implies, has Growl added by velocity... Not by an LFO. There is no Low Frequency Oscillator applying any Amplitude Modulation to this Voice. "Amplitude Modulation" is the synthesizer terminology for what we musicians call "tremolo" - the variance in loudness that produces a rapid loud-soft-loud-soft "growl-like" effect.

The Growl on this particular Voice is sampled (yes, a real tenor sax growl was recorded) and is supplied specifically by Elements 3 and 5 of this Voice - but only when you exceed a Velocity of 61-127. If you would like to remove the Growl from the "Velo Growl Legato" you would need to reprogram the Velocity Ranges of some of the Elements involved and remove the "Growl" Elements completely (takes about 10-20 seconds). Here's how:

Press [EDIT]
Press [1] to select Element 1
Press [F1] OSCILLATOR
Here you can see the assigned Waveform, how/when the Element is set to "articulate" and the Note and Velocity Ranges.
Set the Velocity Range of Element 1 to 1-127
Reason: this is the main body of the tenor sax - Notice the XA CONTROL = Normal. This means this Element will sound when played normally. Originally set to play at velocities between 1-60 - the "Growl" Element took over above that... By setting this to 1-127 we have the normal body sound throughout all velocities. This will serve you when you want to attack a new note (take a breath and attack a note normally)

Press [2] to select Element 2
This Element (XA CONTROL = legato) is only when you play with a legato gesture. It is the body of the sound at velocities 1-60 for legato play.

Press [3] to select Element 3 (Growl)
Set the Element Switch = OFF
This will remove the "tremelo-effect" growl

Press [4] to select Element 4
Set the Velocity range to 61-127
This Element is the main body with a legato gesture... and will compliment Element 2 - so even when playing legato you can have two different timbres for this sax. Element 2 for soft legato, thus a Element, 4 for hard legato strikes.

Press [5] to select Element 5
Set the Element Switch = OFF
This will remove the "tremolo-effect" growl from the legato gesture

Elements 6, 7 and 8 are used to add pad noise and character to the overall sax emulation and do not need to be altered.

You should rename this Voice from "Velo Growl Legato" to "No Growl Legato" 🙂
And [STORE] your edit to a USER location.

I like the growl. I don't want to get rid of the growl.

I want to get rid of the tremolo.

Sorry, your description is not clear. Technically speaking, there is no tremolo (change in volume/amplitude) applied in this Voice, perhaps you are referring to saxophone vibrato - which is a continuing variance/change in pitch (it can, I guess, include some loudness change as well). Any "vibrato" you hear on the Voice, like the growl, is sampled naturally, as well.

You can change the Waveform accessed in Element 1 to 1097 "Tenor Sax1" which is the Tenor Sax sampled without natural vibrato and without natural growl. The Growl sample Elements 3 and 5, have not only the musician's natural growl but the musician's natural vibrato, as well.

You may want to built a saxophone out of Waveform 1097 (the Tenor sax without the natural growl and vibrato), and create your own artificial "vibrato" and "growl" using LFOs, this way you do not have to inherit any of that natural musician articulation...

Set Element 1 so it plays throughout the velocity range 1-127
Set Element 3 so that the Element Sw = OFF

You will still have vibrato on the legato growl but you can play individually attacked notes without the vibrato.

Thanks, Bad_Mister. It sounded like tremolo to me, but I'm sure you're correct and it really wasn't. I'll try your suggestions.

Thanks...

Indeed, I agree there may be some variation in volume level, as well, but the point is, either way it is natural - it is in the sample data. This means it is not an adjustable parameter as it would be if it were simply being applied by an LFO. As you can see you can get different results (sometimes) by trying different Tenor Sax Waveforms - some have pronounced characteristic and others are more 'flat' (flat in the sense of not modulated much in terms of vibrato, tremolo, growl or other natural articulation). The thing is to find a source waveform that supports your 'vision' of the sound you are going after.

You may want to built a saxophone out of Waveform 1097 (the Tenor sax without the natural growl and vibrato), and create your own artificial "vibrato" and "growl" using LFOs, this way you do not have to inherit any of that natural musician articulation...

Your suggestion to use Waveform 1097 worked perfectly.

Now I'm getting around to trying to create my own "growl" with the LFO. My guess is that the best way to do this would be to have the LFO control a filter (as opposed to pitch or amplitude). Am I correct?

If so, how do I figure out which filter to use? They have names like "LPC22" (I made that one up, but it's something like what I remember seeing earlier today), and I have no idea what the names mean.

Thanks…

I figured out what some of the filter names are: Low Pass, High Pass, etc.

But I haven't yet managed to make anything that sounds like a saxophone growl. Suggestions would be very welcome…

Tremolo is a musical term ... for Amplitude Modulation. So strictly speaking it would not be applied by a Filter. However, that said, a filter removes, so you could use it to affect the output level (amplitude) but it will additionally affect the timbre (tone) - this may work for what you are envisioning... Or not.

LPF = Low Pass Filter allows low frequencies to pass, and blocks high frequencies. The number that follows 6, 12, 18, or 24 is a measurement of many dB per octave the filter reduces. If A440 is a certain output level and you apply an LPF6 at that frequency, A880 will be 6dB lower in output level. A1760 would be 12dB softer than the original fundamental A440 and so on. Frequencies below the "cutoff" frequency are completely unaffected. So it will sound like a Wah-Wah (the musical term for Filter Modulation)

HPF = work the other way, allow high frequencies to pass and block lows.

Amplitude Modulation works strictly on output level regardless of frequency. Tremolo will be a rather rapid rhythmic change in amplitude.

Modulation can be applied fulltime or it can biased to a physical controller (doing so will allow you to bring it in and out when you desire).

Other methods include creating a growl Element and use the XA CONTROL feature to activate growl... Using [AF1] and/or [AF2].

(It's not rocket science) 🙂

Can I get your opinion on the best way to use an LFO to create growl for a saxophone voice? Should it affect amplitude, pitch, or some filter?

Amplitude, for sure.

One of the things I learned when I learned to play Yamaha's VL technology is that analog and even sampled-based synthesizers are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to unique gestures like a saxophone growl. There is a throat formant component that is simply very difficult to recreate with the pitch, filter and amplifier building blocks available to your typical synth engine. Throat Formant was an actual parameter in the Physical Modeling engine. (alas).

Pitch is least involved in what would be considered a growl. Filter would be next in terms of least involved, and the Amplifier probably would be the most involved in creating the repeated component that would describe a growl. Certainly there is a a roughness/rawness to the tone as well, but you will have to play with it to get it sound like you are envisioning.

Using the ELEMENT LFO
press [EDIT]
Select the Element [1]-[8]
Press [F5] ELM LFO (Element LFO)

Each Element has its own LFO
Experiment with P Mod, F Mod, and A Mod
Values applied here will be full time... Means they sound all the time at the SPEED set at the top of the column.

Experiment with Wave shapes, as well. Saw, triangle, square... This is all subjective.

Once you have the "growl" that you like, you need to decide if you want to activate this Element with Articulation Control, or you would rather bias the Modulation Depth to a controller.

Difference? XA CONTROL will bring in the Element on demand.
Biasing control to a physical controller will allow you bring 'how much' by the gesture of the controller.