I would love to know is it possible to transfer a song or pattern made on the motif xf recorded with the on board effects then Send it say 16 midi tracks to cubase for mixing, and also is it possible to do this using the motifs FireWire output and if so can you talk us through the best method to get me there please ?

Yes, it is possible. Any SONG made in the Motif XF can be Saved to an ALL data file, and then opened in Cubase.

When you install the Yamaha Motif XF Extensions for Steinberg, this adds the ability to Cubase to IMPORT data directly from an ALL data file (.X3A).

This is best method for transferring a Song made on the Motif XF... It is a two step process:
Step 1: import the MIDI and Audio data recorded to the XF's Integrated Sampling Sequencer.
Step 2: import the MIXING setup and all the Voices you used in the synth engine

You could transfer the data via FireWire... But that is not the "best way" if by best you mean easiest, most elegant way.

Please see the following article which explains it in detail. (If you have a Pattern, it is recommended that you create a CHAIN and convert SONG. Because the basic layout of Cubase is linear).

Motif XF Song Import

Hi BadMister

Thanks for your great reply that has helped to clear up a few matters, and yes I meant the easiest or most elegant way as you said. I need to also know how to process the mid data from 16 tracks to 16 audio tracks with the motif xf insert and system plus master effects intact with my recording, I want it to sound exactly as how it sounds on my motif xf ?

Is this possible ?

Also when I try to transfer my midi data using the above method with cubase 6 (full version ) with the import motif song function to audio data, via the motif vst editor all of the insert effects are greyed out, how do you record all of this with the motif vcm effects (which are excellent by the way) for all 16 tracks printed as audio ?

Thanks for your great reply that has helped to clear up a few matters but I need to also know how to process the mid data from 16 tracks to 16 audio tracks with the motif xf insert and system plus master effects intact with my recording exactly how it sounds on my motif xf ?

Thank you for the question, because this comes up very often and is a very important point to start with. I used to teach, and what that does for a person is it forces one to attempt to communicate a "concept" or to break down a subject so that some one else can utilize it.

Usually complex subjects are tackled by starting small. Learn the small, and then the large makes sense. No one would tackle the large first to understand the small. So I will not start by explaining how you can turn 16 MIDI tracks to 16 audio tracks. In fact, when you begin to understand the concept/subject, you will quickly see why the first thing I'm going to tell you seems to start at the opposite side of the universe. And here it is:

16 MIDI Tracks do not necessarily translate to 16 Audio Tracks.

Why your topic is such a common question/conclusion, is because the difference between a MIDI stream of data, and what we know as audio, is not being appreciated. When we say we record MIDI data to separate Tracks, it is not for the same reasons we record audio to separate tracks.

Let's use a simple 3 Track MIDI recording as an example (again, starting with the 'small'). It's MIDI data. MIDI data is not audio, it has never been heard, it is a series of coded messages that represent the performance of music. I mention this because moving it from place (device) to place requires different protocols. In order to fully understand the "concept" of FireWire audio, you have to understand what it takes to move Midi data versus moving audio signals.

I could record the three tracks of MIDI from the Motif XF sequencer to Cubase - and I could keep the Drum Midi data separated from the Bass Midi data, and separate from the Piano Midi data... Even though I record them to a single MIDI Track (Channel set to "ANY"). This is because the coded message includes the MIDI Channel information.

You only need a separate Track for MIDI because it makes more convenient to look at (EDIT). No other reason.

This is not true of the audio, that is triggered by that Midi data. The audio can be heard, it can be mono or stereophonic in nature. In general, all the synthesizer Parts are assigned to sound (play) through the main Stereo Left/Right outputs. And each PART has a Pan control that allows you to position the instruments sound either farther to the left (add resistance to the right bus), or you can pan it farther to the right (by adding resistance to the left bus), or you can place the sound in the center (equal signal to each Left and the Right buses).

All of the sounds in the Motif XF are sampled - audio recorded and stored for quick musical access. Some of the synthesizer sounds in the WAVE ROM were sampled in stereo - this means there were two microphones or a stereo mic used to take advantage of the fact that what typically travels to your left and right ears is significantly different on this particular instrument. The acoustics of the real instrument is recreated by sampling in stereo (like on a Grand Piano, Orchestra Strings); Other Voices in the XF are sampled in mono, but utilize a stereo Insertion Effect (like the Rotary Spkr on a B3, or Auto Pan on a Rhodes), and still other Voices combine many instruments that can be individually panned in the stereo panorama... (Like a Drum Kit where the toms are panned across in stereo, the Hihat is slightly to the side, the crash is opposite the ride, the kick and snare are dead center).

This main stereo output... Is basically two wires, a Left and a Right. Signal is send through both. Equally when the Pan knob is Center. More to one or the other as you "pan" the knob. This is an example of a stereo bus. The the word "bus" is used because it carries signal from one place to another along a pre-specified route. Different signals (passengers) can get on the bus or in some cases the bus is used to carry a single signal (passenger) to the destination.

The way you move audio from the XF to your computer is via 16 audio buses. Initially, all 16 passengers ride the main L/R stereo bus to the speaker outputs. You can, in the MIXING PART parameters, route different Parts to assignable outputs. In other words, say you want to remove the Piano from the main stereo output and route it separately, on its own bus, to a separate destination (Track). This is where you have the fourteen assignable FW outputs.

Yes FW16E = FireWire 16 bus Expansion board. Stereo plus fourteen assignable. 2 + 14 = 16

In my three Part example:
Piano, Bass, Drums - we need to make a production decision. do I want to simply transfer my three XF tracks as a stereo mix (final mix) or do I want to transfer instruments separately to individual audio tracks.

You would only do the latter if you plan on continuing to work on the sound of the project. There is no reason to record each item (instrument) to a separate audio track if you don't plan on DOING something to it. For example, if I record each to a separate audio track in Cubase, then all I do is combine them again to make a mix... WHY? What was the purpose. I could mix the levels in the XF. So the reason for isolating an instrument or Part, is an important production decision.

If you are going to process the Bass differently from what you have on board the XF, that's a good reason to isolate it. If you are going to isolate the Kick and Snare to their own audio tracks, have a reason to do so. Say you want to put an Envelop Shaper on the Snare drum, that's a great reason to assign that snare drum to its own FW output, and setup to receive and record it as audio in Cubase.

There are 14 assignable FW outputs that can be configured in odd/even stereo pairs, or as individual mono buses.
Remember multiple passengers can ride a bus to a destination.

Example:
_ Drums
Kick = FW1
Snare = FW2
Hihat Cl = FW3
Hihat Pdl = FW3
Hihat Op = FW3
Crash = FW4
Toms = FW5/6
Perc = FW7/8
Ride = FW9
_ Bass = FW10
_ Piano = L&R

This easily could be a realtime transfer from an XF to Cubase using 12 of the 16 buses to just record the rhythm section.

3 MIDI Tracks do not equal 3 Audio Tracks. Above example... that would be 9 tracks - see how the flexibility of the FW BUS system works? To get the "concept" behind the FW16e expansion, it's about using the buses to isolate those Parts you need/want to process further in you DAW! Now I can put plug-in Effects on the Kick, snare, hihats etc. as I desire.

When a Part is directed to the assignable output (FW1-FW14) it is removed from the main system outputs, from the system effects, from the master EQ. It does maintain its Dual Insertion Effects and there realtime Controller assignments. So in this fashion, you are able to "track" audio taking full advantage of the powerful Insertion Effects.

Once you print/render a Part as audio to Cubase, you are free to reallocate the XF's INSERTION EFFECTS a, so you can always render Parts using the XF's powerful Effects. FW allows you to take full advantage of these powerful Effects... Simply realize that your workflow involves multiple passes. How many? Well, that's entirely up to you. It is not a race, it's about what you want to accomplish. You can move as many Parts as you desire/require via the buses.

For more details and the "how to" questions please see the following article:
Motif XF Routing Parts via FireWire

Thank you once again I wish I could of been a student at one of your classes anyway back to reality, sorry to repeat myself but I need to know is it possible to have all your tracks made on the motif to be transferred to cubase with the system,master and insert xf from the motif recorded to individual audio stems ready for external outboard gear processing and then mixing before my material is ready for mastering

Not sure I can explain it to you, if you understand nothing of what I say. So how's this:

Yes! You can.

I do understand what you are saying and I don't mean to sound like I'm being rude but I was only asking how do you go about doing that using the FireWire ?

I would love or even pay to see you do a video on this same topic bad mister covering the most examples on how you can use this tool, it would make life so much easier for me and many others.

Hey Bad Mister

I have had to read all of what you said a few times before it all registered and seriously it all now makes perfect sense and I would like to thank you greatly for your patience and understanding and to forgive me of my ignorance whilst I was trying to get head around this tricky subject. I would like to thank you greatly for your help it is extremely appreciated.

No problem. It is a tricky subject - no doubt. One that, Yamaha believes is important to musicians doing their own music production projects. It is complicated and worth the effort getting to know how to work. It has a learning curve - but is definitely DO_ABLE! The toughest part of it all is gaining the appreciation of what is available and then plugging yourself into how to best use it. I used to teach audio engineering - and have always felt that it is a subject, that while complex, is something every musician should tackle (much of it is so involved in what we do).

We plan on doing some basic fundamental instructional video tutorials here on Yamaha Synth _ that was one of the purposes of this site. While the most common request is to see a video with 16 MIDI tracks becoming 16 Audio tracks - and while that seems to be the thing to do (before you actually work with it), my assessment is that this would be unnecessarily involved, and especially because that is not how the FW outputs wind up being used, in most cases. It is not always necessary to transfer all the PARTS of your XF to separate AUDIO Tracks (it simply is not). Yes you could, but in a real-world situation, you probably will not need to do this. It is a common misconception about how you will use the feature BEFORE you have actually used the feature!
🙂 - you really only need to learn about routing signal in three different types of situations:

_ Stereo bus situation - like assigning a stereo instrument, like piano to a FW audio out
_ Mono bus situation - like assigning a mono Voice like a bass to a FW audio out
_ Assigning Drums from within a kit to mono and stereo FW outputs

...with this knowledge you can figure out any situation you might encounter. I used to teach audio engineering - and the first class everyone was intimidated by the control room mixing console. This was because it looked like a sea of knobs, sliders, lights and buttons... I quickly learned to cover the console with a blanket, uncover one channel strip. First class I'd teach them the one channel - then, reveal the rest of the console. Everyone's reaction was quite different - they realized that you don't need to learn each channel, it just repeats (until you get to the main output controls on the right side).

Once you understand how to route a PART to a Stereo bus, to a Mono bus, and how to route individual drums as necessary, you will have 85-90% of what you need to know about routing signal... whether your project is a few Parts or all 16 Parts. It is the same - it just repeats.

With a music production tool like the Motif XF you get the following:
_ A synthesizer that can record both MIDI and audio to its internal sequencer. Doing all the processing, EQ'ing etc, on-board, then do audio mixdown to a USB drive or directly to a computer via Ethernet or wirelessly to an iPad or iPhone. It is a standalone solution for the keyboard musician working at home.

_ A synthesizer that can record both MIDI and audio while integrated with an external DAW software (like Cubase), the FW system allows for sophisticated processing and routing situations that rival larger modular systems in major Project Studios.

_ Because the XF has cutting edge EQ and Effect processing and can seamlessly integrate into the bigger world of computer-based recording you can use the XF's FW system to transfer your music tracks and continue to work and process signals integrated into larger systems and setups. It is really the best of both world's and depending on YOUR personal use case, you can go small or go big.

It is not always necessary for everyone to record separate tracks of audio for every PART. My personal recommendation when it comes to music production (from the keyboard player's perspective):

Record Audio - this is the finished product - you commit a performance to audio.
Use MIDI when you have a reason.
Audio recording pre-dates MIDI recording by almost a century - so Audio is the key.
Use MIDI when it can help you.
MIDI can help you perfect your performance; using tools like correction, quantize, tempo changes, notation, etc., etc.,
MIDI is a useful tool but not a finished product.
Once you have your performance as you like - then you can take on the task of rendering it as AUDIO.
The XF lets you use some of the best processing available while you assign things to the individual FW audio outputs
Sometimes the MIX is all at once to a stereo audio file (final mixdown)...other times you are committing portions of it to audio (multi-track style) and then assembling those individual portions into a final stereo audio file (final mixdown).

No two projects are done the same way.

You can "comp" portions into a playable track... this is a common process of combining different portions from several takes into one performance. Say you play or sing the melody of the song through and have three complete takes of the vocal - comping would be taking the best of each and composing a single performance out of them.

Hey Bad Mister

You are the man thanks for sharing and passing on such priceless knowledge and so I'm glad you guys at Yamaha are doing what you do to help us users navigate through the audio maze of knowledge.

seriously I hope you & yours has a great Christmas and a blessed new year. 😉