Is there a way that I can use both Cubase and the iPad simultaneously? This would require Cubase MIDI communication with the XF7 to happen over the network instead of USB.

Is what I want to do possible? Ideally, I would like to do it all over my WiFi network. Would that work, or would there be problems with reliability/latency/etc if I go the wireless route?

Hi Michael,
I don't know what has been discussed, and I'm not at all clear what you have in mind when you say "do it all" over your WiFi network, but let's look at some facts and concepts.

_The Yamaha iPad/iPhone WiFi Apps are really designed to work with the Motif XF and work to control the Motif XF. They do not control Cubase, at all.
_ There is a Steinberg app to wirelessly control Cubase (Cubase iC Pro) just FYI, sounds like you want to control Cubase wirelessly. I have no experience with this App, but that is what it is designed to do - control completely Cubase. But this is not an App for the Motif XF, only Cubase.

As to the Motif XF WiFi apps you can use those with the Motif XF and document everything you might want to do in the Motif XF. Then you can transfer that to Cubase by means you already know (IMPORT Motif XF Song). You don't mention what you have in mind exactly. I don't necessarily see a benefit from merging control of the Motif XF simultaneously from Cubase and an App... but you may have something specific in mind. I'm curious.

I would simply caution you that the Apps do many things via System Exclusive MIDI messages (for editing some parameters) and anything like the control change messages found in the X-Y Pad or Controller movements, well, the amount of data generated by them can be gargantuan. Seriously - you don't want to record this as MIDI (just my suggestion)...

Fact: In general, where the apps are concerned, record AUDIO - when you record something as MIDI data do so for a specific reason. That reason could be to edit, and correct it (not likely with the Apps, especially if you are thinking about recording the bouncing X-Y Gravity Ball or Fader movements as MIDI data). If you are going to use the Apps creatively (which typically means tons of MIDI data) I would highly recommend recording your performance of same as AUDIO. There are some things that MIDI shouldn't be used to record or should I say it wouldn't be practical to use MIDI recording in all cases.

Some Possibilities
You can always connect the Motif XF to the iPad (wireless) using the MIDI IN/OUT = network and either record the result as audio to Cubase or record audio to the XF's own internal Integrated Sampling Sequencer or record audio to a USB drive connected to the Motif XF's TO DEVICE port. I've even recorded my WiFi performance of the Yamaha "Faders&Pad" App to a second iPad running the Cloud Audio for Motif XF App... all wireless on the same network.

But since the Yamaha Apps don't control Cubase - and since I don't have much use for all that MIDI data. I've never thought about recording to Cubase anything other than the AUDIO generated by any of the currently available Apps.

But, then again, we don't really know what it is you have in mind when connecting them all together. But it would best to know what (exactly) you want to accomplish before spending money on any additional gear. Let us know.

Sorry, I should have been more specific.

I’m starting out with the Faders & XY Pad iPad app. I have the sliders in the app set up to control the volume for MIDI channels 9-16.

I have my XF7/Cubase rig set up so that I can record a “live” performance directly from the XF7 into a Cubase MIDI track. (You taught me how to do this a while ago.)

My idea is that by using the iPad app I can control the volume on all 16 MIDI channels in real time while I’m playing: channels 1-8 via the sliders on the XF7, channels 9-16 via the iPad app.

The current setup has MIDI events going from the XF7 to Cubase via USB, which requires MIDI In/Out to be set to USB. But using the iPad app requires MIDI In/Out to be set to network.

I’m wondering two things:

1) Can the XF7/Cubase setup work over the network instead of via USB?

2) Can the XF7 to Cubase link work well if the XF7 to wireless router part of the link is happening over WiFi? Would there be issues with latency, dropped data, etc?

Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving!

1) Can the XF7/Cubase setup work over the network instead of via USB?

No.

2) Can the XF7 to Cubase link work well if the XF7 to wireless router part of the link is happening over WiFi? Would there be issues with latency, dropped data, etc?

Okay let's concentrate on what will work.

Connect your Motif XF to your iPad via your router and the MIDI IN/OUT = network. As you noted, it is a SELECTION. If you select to communicate MIDI over the wifi you need to set this "network" - this precludes the XF from communicating to the computer via USB.

All audio options are not affected at all. The Wifi, the network, the Apps are all communicating MIDI. Audio is handled separately. You can setup to use the App to extend your 8 Control Slider set so you have access to 8 real Control Sliders and 8 in the App. That will work just fine. But my post above asks what do you want to do in Cubase?

_ If your goal is to record MIDI to Cubase via USB - no, that will not happen. The MIDI I/O must be "network".
_ If your goal is to record MIDI to Cubase via FW - no, that will not happen. The MIDI I/O must be "network".
_ If your goal is to record Audio to Cubase via USB - no, that will not happen - the Motif XF does not output audio via USB "To Host" (ever)
_ If your goal is to record Audio to Cubase via FW - yes, you will be able to record audio to Cubase or any external audio recorder set to receive audio from the XF.

This includes via the FW16E, or by connecting the audio outputs of the XF to an external audio interface setup to be used by Cubase.
As I mentioned you can even put the "CLOUD AUDIO RECORDER for MOTIF XF" on your iPhone or another iPad and record a CD-quality 16-bit/44.1kHz audio file on the same network. Just FYI: The Cloud Audio Record for Motif XF - does not do MIDI - it is an audio app!!!

The Motif XF can broadcast audio while connected Wifi (MIDI) to the other Apps. Audio is handled completely separately. And basically all audio outputs are active at all times (unless you change your FW MONITOR SETUP to disconnect it from the analog outputs).

One thing you should know: it is straight audio recording, where Cubase is concerned. Without a MIDI connection between the XF and Cubase, it will not be able to synchronize, count Measures and Beats with what you are playing. You will be recording as if to "tape" where Minutes + Seconds are used instead of Bars + Beats. So you will want to use a slate and audible count-in (if you plan on overdubbing to this later).

1) Can the XF7/Cubase setup work over the network instead of via USB?

No.

It would be really helpful to further my understanding of how this all works if you could go into some detail about why the answer is "No."

The Yamaha iPad/iPhone WiFi Apps are really designed to work with the Motif XF and work to control the Motif XF. They do not control Cubase, at all. That really says it all.

But that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to have the iPad do anything with respect to Cubase in particular, or my PC in general.

I'm trying to use the iPad to control the XF and simultaneously have the XF send/receive MIDI data to/from Cubase. This would require setting MIDI In/Out on the XF to network and having the MIDI communication between the XF and Cubase on the PC work that way instead of via USB.

If I'm understanding what you said, you told me it was impossible to do that. I'm hoping for more detail about why that's impossible to further my understanding about how this all works.

It's simple - it is an either/or selection. You can choose select one protocol for MIDI communication. MIDI communication is bi-directional and sends the multiple channels (I'm not sure if you appreciate just how many channels of information are generated by MIDI, but no matter...) via either the standard 5-pin MIDI jacks, or you can choose to communicate via the USB-"To Host" multi-port, or you can choose to communicate via the FW multi-port or you can choose to send MIDI via the wireless network. MIDI is a bi-directional communication protocol - this means a "handshake" is often necessary for some things to work, for example, a request is sent by an application and the response is returned by the synthesizer. The bi-directional thing is how settings synchronize between the software and the hardware. There simply is no necessity to duplicate bi-directional MIDI communication via multiple protocols at the same time. For what purpose? At what expense? How would that work? All that MIDI data bouncing back and forth, it gives the shivers just imagining this. And in most cases it would cause such chaos and be non-useful. And if clock signal is involved - Look out!!!

Sorry, I don't have a better answer for you, but you don't have a clear idea of what you really want to do, either 🙂

As I mention - the amount of MIDI data generated by some of those Apps can be gargantuan - it depends; Recording your "performance" on an App to a (MIDI) sequencer and attempting to play it back, I don't see any advantage doing what you are attempting as MIDI data - importantly you *can* document what you do by recording *audio* to Cubase.

Analogy: Having two controllers play the same sound source may seem like a great idea until you actually do it. Two keyboard players can be configured to play a single sound with the proper routing in MIDI, but it turns out not to be such a good idea as soon as one of them wants to use the PB wheel, and the other wants to use the sustain pedal, chaos quickly ensues. Messages start conflicting because the code says to do this NOW.

Not sure what you are thinking about doing with that MIDI data (that's why I asked you, why record it as MIDI?) and I'm not sure what more I can do discourage you from thinking you would gain something in this union of controlling the XF with an iPad while the XF sends MIDI data both back to the iPad and to Cubase? I think it is one of those great ideas, that sounds like it would yield some great result... but would not.

I'm recommending you setup and record what you do as AUDIO to Cubase. (I think this is the third time, I'm recommending it. I don't mind recommending it again, and again because it is something that once you do this, I think you will have a clearer picture of what you can accomplish. And then if there is something you think you want to correct or fix you will start to think creatively about how you can accomplish what you envision.

I know that the data that is sent from the Apps may be difficult, if not impossible, for you to edit - in fact, you will find it is way more difficult to edit than to create. It would be far, far, far easier to DO IT AGAIN, than to edit that data. Say you play it back and something is not right - attempting to find and fix what is not right might take you ten times longer than doing it over... so why not just record AUDIO?

Also you would have go through a crazy amount of signal routing and filtering to capture just certain data and then what?

What I'm telling you that this is NOT going to happen with MIDI data going both places with the MIDI IN/OUT parameter in the XF. It is not designed to send MIDI data to multiple protocols simultaneously. Sorry. That was not even something I think that was even considered or required or requested (as far as I know).

I'm hoping for more detail about why that's impossible to further my understanding about how this all works.

"Why" is equivalent to a "how come" question and I don't ever have any really good answers for "how come...?" questions... other than "Because that's how it is...."

Why not put the Motif XF in ALL TRACK record - and record what you do with the iPad to the internal sequencer? (forget Cubase for a moment) - then look at all the data you are generating and ask yourself, "now that I have that data what am I going to do with it?" Then setup and do the same thing and record it as AUDIO to Cubase... Please actually do this, try it (its the best way to learn) - then let us know if it helps your understanding about how this all works! Bet it does. ((But forget about sending MIDI via two different protocols from the XF simultaneously - that is not going to happen, you get to select one! And that is by design.))
🙂

What I was hoping to do was record MIDI output from the XF7 to Cubase, capturing both what I was playing and the output of the sequencer. At the same time, I wanted to use the iPad app as an "extension" of the physical controls available on the XF7. In particular, I was thinking that I could use the sliders on the XF7 to control volume on channels 1-8, and simultaneously use the slider app to control volume on channels 9-16.

Using rtpMIDI, I was able to use Wi-Fi instead of USB to record everything from the XF7 to Cubase. The problem I finally ran into was that it doesn't seem to be possible for the XF7 to simultaneously communicate over Wi-Fi with both Cubase and the iPad app.

I almost got my scheme to work, but for reasons I couldn't figure out, it could only be one or the other.

As I said, (in my previous post) it's simple - it's an either/or situation.

It's not that it is a bad idea, just not possible at this time!