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Can internal and external sequencers run simultaneously?

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John
 John
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OK – I think that I have been going at this the wrong way

In Basic Audio Recording III Bad Mister writes:

Clock Synchronization
Now that you have setup the DAW to be the master clock,
Starting and stopping Cubase can also cause the MO-XF sequencer to start and stop.
By making the clock output available to the MO-XF
You can synchronize any TEMPO driven effects to the beat as derived in the DAW.
This also synchronizes the arpeggiators of the MO-XF,
As they also use this same clock.

Questions:
1. Is it simpler and more effective to trigger and record the Arps and tempo driven effects from the MOXF internal sequencer – rather than try and capture the data on an external sequencer(for me AI7)?

2. Is it easier to get the Arps to sync on the beat – in the internal sequencer? Because it is really difficult to get them synced on AI7. (I followed the instructions and was able to get the note data arps captured in AI7 – but the timing was off – and it would be a bear to get everything synced up. Ugh! Not efficient or effective.)

3. Is it even feasible to capture the zone based arps data directly on an external sequencer? I tried that – and it did not work. (Bad Mister said there was more set up needed for that.) Got parts of the ARP – but not all. So I would have to conclude that is not an effective way of doing things.

4. Is it possible to record normal MIDI date in Cubase – (notes and controllers) - capture the complex Arps on the internal sequencer - and then play back both sequencers simultaneously ?

5. If #4 is possible – Is there a tutorial?

 
Posted : 26/04/2015 11:31 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

1. Is it simpler and more effective to trigger and record the Arps and tempo driven effects from the MOXF internal sequencer – rather than try and capture the data on an external sequencer(for me AI7)?

It is certainly simpler to record the Arps to the MOXF's own internal sequencer. (We will assume you are talking about MIDI data as the MOXF does not record audio and does not have a sampler). The "more effective" part is a big question mark, assuming you do setup and record everything properly, there will be absolutely no difference in the end result. No one would ever be able to tell if climbed the mountain or simply walked around, to get to the finished line.

Recording normal Note-type arpeggio data to the internal sequencer is quick, easy, and requires no extraordinary setup.
Recording the same Note-type arpeggio to an external sequencer, as noted in some of your previous questions requires a complex setup to record, a different setup to playback, and requires at least one MIDI Jedi Merit badge.
Recording multiple normal Note-type arpeggios (like in a Performance) to the internal sequencer requires a single button press
Recording multiple normal Note-type arpeggios (like in a Performance) to an external sequencer requires several Merit badges and a desire to do things the absolute hardest way possible.
🙂

2. Is it easier to get the Arps to sync on the beat – in the internal sequencer? Because it is really difficult to get them synced on AI7. (I followed the instructions and was able to get the note data arps captured in AI7 – but the timing was off – and it would be a bear to get everything synced up. Ugh! Not efficient or effective.)

As I tried to hint in my earlier post, it is the player's responsibility to come in on the beat. The difference when you are not playing the data yourself is that when you are controlling an arp (you are responsible for placing that first event), if you are 10 clocks ticks late when you start the arpeggio, all notes transmitted by that arp phrase will be *exactly* 10 clock ticks late. It is a simple matter in either the MOXF sequencer or a DAW, like Cubase, to shift the results to the proper clock tick. Simply *select* all the data and move the first event to the downbeat.
The MOXF has a JOB called CLOCK SHIFT.
Cubase you can use the Key Edit view to select all and drag the events into alignment.
This works because the clock does not drift when sync'd so the number of clock ticks early or late will remain consistent.

3. Is it even feasible to capture the zone based arps data directly on an external sequencer? I tried that – and it did not work. (Bad Mister said there was more set up needed for that.) Got parts of the ARP – but not all. So I would have to conclude that is not an effective way of doing things.

It is possible, but not practical. The issue is this... To an external device there are two keyboard players... Each generating Note-On data: YOU, triggering the keys of the MOXF and a second player (the Arpeggiator) generating a totally separate stream of data". With Velocity Zoned Arpeggios, you might be playing the "pad" (held note) Elements, while the Arpeggiator is playing those Elements above or below a certain velocity.

So what does Cubase do when middle "C" is both told to hold for four beats, and play 8 eighth notes during that same time. To Cubase all the notes, no matter whether YOU or the ARP is generating them is obliged to record them. Playback is not what you heard being sent because all the notes return to the MOXF via a single path... Instead of the two separate paths that existed when you (and the Arp) played it.

What to do.... ? Don't let this next bit of information hurt your head.... But there is no good reason to record arpeggios as MIDI data ...unless you plan on EDITING the events! I'll repeat that for emphasis: there is no good reason to record arpeggios as MIDI data ...unless you plan on EDITING the events!

So if the arp is creating exactly what you want... Setup to record yourself performing that arpeggio phrase to an AUDIO TRACK in Cubase!

I had one musician who spent weeks earning the 10th Level MIDI Jedi Knight Merit Badge, only to realize later that all he needed to do was record everything as Audio... The ultimate goal, anyway!!!!

In order to record arpeggio phrases that have both "sort" notes in the Arpeggiator and allow you to play other notes "direct" (Key Mode = "sort+direct"), you should record yourself as audio to an Audio Track in Cubase.

An Alternative method is to record only the trigger note to the DAW and leave the Arp assigned to that Part. This method you would setup so that the MOXF is sync'd to Cubase clock. The MIDI track would be set to receive from the MOXF, and MIDI OUT would be set to "Not Connected". Allowing the notes to "dead end" in Cubase. The MOXF will only transmit your trigger notes OUT via MIDI - you will hear and perform the sort+direct (Velocity Zoned) Arp phrase as normal. When you playback, set the MIDI OUT to the MOXF ... Leave the ARP assigned to the Part and the ARP ON/OFF active. Cubase will now playback just your trigger notes, and the active arpeggio will play just as if you were still playing the trigger notes. Make sense? The arp generated notes are not documented to a track, the MOXF will generate them in real time.

In general, recording to the Internal Sequencer, is quicker, smoother, and causes less head scratching, as a workflow. (This is subjective, of course) but I'm a big believer in separating my Musician "hat" from my Engineer "hat". While I'm making music, I want my workflow to concentrated on getting my ideas out of my head into something quick and painless.... Editing, mixing, adding effects, EQ'ing, etc., I do all of that later. I'm also a big advocate of using the best tool for the job. If the MOXF has a feature I find useful, I use it ... If Cubase has a feature I find useful, I use it. Arguments about which is better is for folks with an agenda (either they don't know their gear, or they have refused to investigate their tools).

For example, I record drum grooves in Pattern mode on the MOXF because it has so many compelling features for how I approach drumming... (Personal decision). If I find myself looking to challenge myself or find myself in a rut, I'll switch and use the DAW. Thing is I don't have to work just one way all the time. I've mastered enough tools in each to make a decision from a place of creative calm.

4. Is it possible to record normal MIDI date in Cubase – (notes and controllers) - capture the complex Arps on the internal sequencer - and then play back both sequencers simultaneously ?

Going for that 12th level Merit Badge? There are easier ways. Of course both sequencers can play simultaneously... I'm getting a headache just thinking about all the settings you'd have to make so chaos wouldn't ensue when you pressed play.

5. If #4 is possible – Is there a tutorial?

it would be like writing an article on "how to tie a shoe" ...much more difficult to write than to do, but since there are slip-on shoes, why not take one of the easier pathways!

🙂 Thanks for the question.

 
Posted : 26/04/2015 3:54 pm
John
 John
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Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

it would be like writing an article on "how to tie a shoe" ...much more difficult to write than to do, but since there are slip-on shoes, why not take one of the easier pathways!

I prefer slip-on shoes!

Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions!:D

 
Posted : 26/04/2015 6:53 pm
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