Synth Forum

Notifications
Clear all

Insert Effects / Organ drawbars / Copying Voice to Pattern mode

2 Posts
2 Users
0 Reactions
3,970 Views
Posts: 0
New Member
Topic starter
 

Hello.

I have few questions actually.

First one is about insert effects in Pattern Mode. When I am assigning Voices to different parts, I noticed, that I can have only 8 parts with Insert Effects On... another 8 is only "dry" Voice (regardless of the P.WithVce setting) and I cannot turn the InsEf on. Am I missing something and there is a way to have all 16 parts with InsEf on...or this is how it works and I have to live with "only" 8?

Another one is about Organ drawbars. Is there any way to make the knobs work as drawbars in Pattern Mode? I can change the Volume of Parts (pressing two Tone Buttons together), but I cannot find the way to be able to change Volume of Elements within the Part's Voice using knobs in this Mode. Any way? Mabe External controller? 😉

And the last one for now is: Is there any way to copy Voice to Pattern Part directly from Voice Mode to Pattern Mode? For ex. I am in the Voice Mode, looking for a sound, changing Voices and, tweaking knobs and buttons and let's assume I like the sound i created. In the process of looking for a sound I created the best riff in the world and I want to quickly record it with this particular sound. Now I have to switch to Pattern Mode, choose Part, remember which Bank and Program was my sound, find it, assign and.... at the end get dissappointed, because I forgot to save it 😉 Any shortcut for this? I know about Direct Performance record, but I wonder if there is any way to do the same in Voice Mode?

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

 
Posted : 14/04/2015 4:56 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Welcome to Yamaha Synth! and thanks for the questions.

First one is about insert effects in Pattern Mode. When I am assigning Voices to different parts, I noticed, that I can have only 8 parts with Insert Effects On... another 8 is only "dry" Voice (regardless of the P.WithVce setting) and I cannot turn the InsEf on. Am I missing something and there is a way to have all 16 parts with InsEf on...or this is how it works and I have to live with "only" 8?

For a complete understanding of the Effects processing and allocation of Effects we highly recommend you read through the article on MOXF Effects (we'll provide a link at the end of this post). There are Insertion Effects, System Effects, Master Effects... Among the Effects are boutique EQs, Compressors, Phasers, Flangers, Delays, Rotary Speaker, etc., etc., etc. It will be important to understand how these effects are used by the MOXF architecture. The best way I can explain it is to talk about the real world - because (believe it or not) the architecture mimics the real world.

VOICE mode - is like a single musician with an instrument
PERFORMANCE mode - is like the musician joined an ensemble with three other musicians (forming a quartet) - definitely like joining a band that has a mixer... and a channel for each musicians instrument. The concept is the individual is now a PART in a band.
SONG/PATTERN MIXING mode is like the band going to a multi-track recording studio that has a 16-channel mixer and a 16-track recorder.

When you are in VOICE mode - think of a musician at home with their instrument. They have 2 INSERTION EFFECTS (Effects that literally are inserted 'inline' with the instrument signal... example: A Guitar player has a Distortion and a Wah-Pedal. The Guitar is plugged into the Distortion, the Distortion is plugged into the Wah Pedal, - these are INSERTION EFFECTS - the effects are inserted inline with the guitar signal.

The room you are sitting in is the outer environment - these are handled by the SYSTEM EFFECTS and control Reverberation (Reverb) and Time Delays (Chorus). The INSERTION EFFECTS belong to the VOICE, and can be assigned real time physical Controllers so that you can manipulate when and how the effects are used while performing. There is no real time control of room acoustics while performing (requires hammers, nails, ladders, and bricks)... other than SEND AMOUNT. So the analogy works. You can Control the INSERTION EFFECTS but you cannot change the size of the room. You can move closer or move farther away.

When you place the VOICE in a PERFORMANCE, it is now joining an ensemble with 3 other musicians. Those 3 other musicians each brings two of their own INSERTION EFFECTS with them - so that all four musicians can have their own 2 Insertion Effects... the Guitar can bring its Distortion and Wah, the Organ can have a Rotary Speaker and Overdrive, and so on. But all four musicians are in the same rehearsal hall... so they share the Room Acoustics (SYSTEM EFFECTS). We are sure you have played in a band at some point, and plugged into the band's mixer (PERFORMANCE mode)... you have a channel on that mixer - and each channel has 2 AUX SENDS... One to the SYSTEM REVERB, the other to the SYSTEM CHORUS (or time delay) Effect processor. SEND and RETURN... this is radically different from the INSERTION EFFECTS. Make sense? Sound at all familiar?

You can position instruments in the stereo field using Reverberation and Time delays. But each musician has individual control over their own two INSERTION EFFECTS via assigned controllers.

SONG/PATTERN MIXING mode is where the band is now in a recording studio. There can be 16 Channels on the mixer, and 16 tracks in the recorder. True, only eight PARTS can recall their dual Insertion Effects at one time. That is the key you must understand... that is the physical limit to the available processing.

A maximum of 8 PARTS can be selected to recall their dual insertion effects when you go to SONG/PATTERN MIXING. You cannot activate a ninth PART. By default the first 8 PARTS have the INSERT SWITCH set ON. You will need to turn it OFF on a PART before you can activate it on another.

This is not devastating. Not every instrument needs to have two INSERTION EFFECTS (not many real bands have that kind of processing going on anyway) - of course, this is subjective. But drummers do not usually bring along two INSERTION EFFECT, Horn players do not require two INSERTION EFFECTS, Bass players while they may have an effect every now and then, it is the exception, not the rule. Since every channel in a MIXING setup has its own 3 Band EQ, a VOICE that uses an EQ an one of its Insertion Effects is not critical as a PART that needs one in SONG or PATTERN mode. Choose wisely.

So when you are picking the member of the band for the recording session, do your research... you will probably find that on many of the VOICES you are using the Dual INSERTION EFFECT is not critical for every PART. The Drum Kit you have chosen (unless a specialty kit like "Compressed Drums", or Drums in Outta Space...) probably doesn't suffer by not having the INSERTION EFFECT SWITCH selected. In fact, most people I talk to in your situation have been activating the INSERT SWITCH on PARTS that do not even use their INSERTION EFFECT assignment. Think of INSERTION EFFECTS as the specialty effect that gives a Voice personality. Not every Voice needs to be FEATURED - choose wisely the PARTS that you activate the INSERTION EFFECT SWITCH.

Another one is about Organ drawbars. Is there any way to make the knobs work as drawbars in Pattern Mode? I can change the Volume of Parts (pressing two Tone Buttons together), but I cannot find the way to be able to change Volume of Elements within the Part's Voice using knobs in this Mode. Any way? Mabe External controller? 😉

You don't mention which Organ sound you are using, but I'm going to bet that the programmer that created that sound probably assigned ELEMENT LEVEL to the AS1 and AS2 Knobs. In other words, NO there are no drawbars on the MOXF... you can control Element Levels by assigning them to controllers - so if you know about B3 settings you can have access to certain footages in real time. In fact, explore your favorite B3 Voice and take a look at the CONTROL SET:
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON]
Press [F4] CONTROL SET
Here you can view the six controller assignments for this VOICE - Element Level is probably already programmed to some controller.

No you cannot 'work' the "drawbars" like on a real B3, there are no drawbars... but you can change radically the organ tone by manipulating the level of each Element... Elements in the tone wheel organ category use Waveforms that are different Footages 16, 5 1/3, 8, 4 etc., etc You can easily assign a control to alter the Level of each Element - a single knob is often used to turn up one Element and simultaneously turn down another. So you can simulate what happens when you move from one drawbar setting to another.

Press the individual Element buttons [1]-[8]
Press [F1] OSCILLATOR
Press [SF1] WAVE
to see the Waveform name (which will be a footage value).

The VOICE called "ALL BARS PERC" has 8 Elements each doing a different footage (I believe the first Element is the 16+8 footage (which is the sub and main footage) often used together as the body of the sound... so you have independent levels for the others while the 16 and 8 foot move together. So say you needed to change from the standard Jimmy Smith 888000000 to the Walter Wanderly bossa nova organ sound, you might have a Knob that raised Element 8 (the 1 foot) and reduced the Quint (5 1/3) Element. It is a synthesizer, not an organ... If you know what settings you want to move between you can probably figure a way to make that happen. If you are not that up on B3 settings - it may be very difficult, at first, to accomplish what you want.

And the last one for now is: Is there any way to copy Voice to Pattern Part directly from Voice Mode to Pattern Mode? For ex. I am in the Voice Mode, looking for a sound, changing Voices and, tweaking knobs and buttons and let's assume I like the sound i created. In the process of looking for a sound I created the best riff in the world and I want to quickly record it with this particular sound. Now I have to switch to Pattern Mode, choose Part, remember which Bank and Program was my sound, find it, assign and.... at the end get dissappointed, because I forgot to save it 😉 Any shortcut for this? I know about Direct Performance record, but I wonder if there is any way to do the same in Voice Mode?

No. There is no way to record from VOICE mode.

Remember Voice mode is our single Musician sitting at a home. Sorry, but like you, he doesn't have a 16 channel mixer and 16 track recorder in his bedroom. You do have to go to the rehearsal hall (Performance) or the recording studio (Song/Pattern) in order to record. (If you idea does not survive setting up to record... well, it probably wasn't that good an idea! 🙂

Here's what you can do, you were given a free copy of Cubase AI - you can record from VOICE mode to Cubase. And once you know how to setup (the setup remains) so literally as quick as you can open Cubase you can record your data directly from VOICE mode. Now if you want to add more PARTS to it, then you will need to setup and move the VOICE into a MIXING setup or PERFORMANCE and so on.

Or you can upgrade to the Motif XF one of the main differences between the MOXF and its bigger (badder) brother, is the ability to record audio directly to a USB stick from any mode, and the ability to record audio in the SEQUENCER.

Also as part of this analogy... if you ever have gone to a professional recording studio you know the engineer spends the better part of the preparation in getting the "sound" that you had envisioned back in your bedroom. 🙂 You do not walk into a studio and immediately have the same SOUND you had at home. This is real world. Reason: you are in a different room, the SYSTEM EFFECTS are different. You share the ROOM you are in with other musicians via SEND amount and RETURN controls (like Aux sends on a console). You must also now EQ your sound different. You cannot use the same EQ on your instrument when it is played solo, as you do when you play in a band.

EQ is to compensate for frequencies that get masked by others in your band. Alone you might EQ an acoustic guitar with a nice full round sound... but as soon as you add an acoustic bass, that nice full round guitar is getting in the way of your acoustic bass. So EQ'ing (artfully) is the balancing of the frequencies of the ensemble - this is why you EQ in context... you can do a general EQ when solo'd but you have to tweak it when you combine any two (or more) signals.

So the old "I want the VOICE to sound exactly like it does in VOICE mode..." lament, is first off - a bit naive. I know because that is how I began my journey to learn about RECORDING. As a young musician, I knew nothing about recording gear. And rather than just complain about the SOUND the engineer was getting, I decided I did not know enough to make an intelligent complaint. The Engineer kept asking me what it was I wanted, I did not know enough to even describe. As I learned all about audio engineering (from some very kind and masterful folks) combined with my musical knowledge, certain realities became crystal clear. SOUND changes as soon as you change the environment it is place in. What sounds like too much reverb when played alone, can be perfect within an ensemble. And what sounds like too thin a tone when played alone can be perfect when surrounded with the full ensemble.

You cannot copy a VOICE with all its setting to a MIXING (there is no single job for that) - you can actually recreate the same EXACT sound, but why? Lets say you copied every setting from VOICE mode to a PATTERN Mixing setup... The INSERT EFFECTS do not have to be "copied" you simply activate the INSERT EFFECT SWITCH - that VOICE will then automatically recall its 2 INSERTION EFFECTS. but the REVERB and CHORUS for the VOICE will need to the shared effects for all the other PARTS. Everyone cannot bring their bedroom's sound to the studio. There can be only one REVERBERATION CHAMBER (practically speaking). Only one room and usually all the musicians are in that room... it is logical.

Article:
MOXF6/MOXF8: Introducing the Effects

 
Posted : 14/04/2015 1:52 pm
Share:

© 2024 Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us