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Pattern sections split from Song corrupted

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Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Has anyone else experienced this?

I split a section from a Song to a brand new empty Pattern. I assign it to Section A.

When I play A the mix sounds nothing like the Song. The volume of at least one and sometimes two or three Parts in the section are wildly off from the Song Mix. This is not an occasional thing. It is happening 90% of the time. I can clear the Section and do the Split selection again and again with the same result.

Note: I am using ac out of the wall with a surge protector. I have NO pedals, neither volume or sustain, plugged into the MOXF.

If I have to go into the Part, now in Pattern mode, and manually re-edit something as basic and critical as Volume, the whole point and value of the Song to Pattern feature is lost.

I invite the reader to go to the Vimeo address below to see me demonstrate in real time.

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/657737771

 
Posted : 17/12/2021 8:27 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Hi Steve,
We’ve been here and perhaps can help you unravel your own problem.

The SONG Job “Split Song to Pattern” allows you to define a region of measures from a linear Song and transfer both the MIDI Track data and the synth MIXING setup (your instrument selection, volumes, pan position, effects, effects sends, etc., etc., etc. to a blank Pattern.
As long as the stored Mixing program doesn’t change during the composition, both will be mirror images of each other automatically.

However, when you do “Split Song to Pattern” and the sound results (the mix) are off from what you expect… it is likely because the region of measures you selected do not represent the correct Mixing settings at that time within the linear Song. You may have inherited settings either stored in the Song header or from some other point in the linear composition.

This means that there is a difference between, for example, the Volume as stored in the synth (Mixing) and Volume message CC7 that is printed in the MIDI data on the Track. The MIXING settings at the time you “Split Song to Pattern” will be the ones that are transferred to the PATTERN MIXING.

Say your bass Part in the *stored* SONG is set to Volume = 125, but somewhere in the MIDI Track for the bass is CC7 (Volume) message telling the bass to go to Volume 103. What happens is, when you recall the Song, the bass maybe set as stored, 125, but somewhere in the Track data is a message altering the bass volume… the bass track has to follow the most recent command for Volume.

Heaven forbid, the original linear song fades out, and you stop the playback with all the levels reduced…. Now, yo go directly to [JOB] and setup for “Split Song to Pattern” and attempt to create an early portion of the composition… because the current MIXING, has all the sliders at 0 at the moment you executed the Job… well, the result will be frighteningly silent when you go to playback the Pattern

How can you prevent this….
Recall the original SONG data.

First, we’ll show you how you can review your initial data — this will be helpful in discovering exactly what changed and will be the first step in ensuring what does happen to your data when you transfer it to Pattern mode.

With the original SONG data freshly recalled (very important) — (because once the Song has played through, often the settings have changed from the original stored status) — you may have changed the mix.
To recall the original settings — the ones actually stored in the Song memory header… move away and actually recall the Song location.

Press the REC button to temporarily enter Record Standby. (From here we can review what data is actually written into the MIXING when you recall the Song).
Press [F2] VOICE
Now when you select a Track [1]~[16] you can review the settings for the Part assigned to receive that data.
You’ll see what Voice is assigned to that Part, what Volume is set, the Pan setting, and whether or not the Voice assigned to this Track is recalling its Insertion Effects.

Using the numbered Track buttons [1]~[16], you can review the stored settings (as documented in the MIXING) for each.

Press [MIXING] (this will drop you out of record standby -- we don’t want to necessarily record anything).
This let you view the tone generator settings.

With [F1] VOL/PAN - you can view what happens to your settings…
Press the PLAY button — while your Song plays back you can see any volume changes and Pan changes as they occur. If the faders or knobs move… this is due to CC7 and CC10 messages contained in the MIDI event data on the Track.

If you play through your Song with MIXING [F2] VOICE pressed you can review any Program Changes that take place… with [F3] EF SND pressed you can review movement is Send amounts… and so on.

You need to know that if there are no changes in the data, when you play your Pattern data Split from a Song, it should be exactly the same (as you are expecting) but if the Song is full of automated changes using CC messages, and/or Program Changes, etc., then you’ll want to take this into account when you execute the “Split Song to Pattern”. You need to know what your MIXING settings are at the measure you are starting the Split (make sense?) Those are the settings you want transfer to the Pattern Mixing.

Solution: You can have the MOXF system automatically update your Mixing setting to the precise measure line at the start of your region!
When you are subdividing a linear Song into Pattern Sections, it is always a good idea to fast forward the Transport to the first Measure of the region you are dividing. If, for example, you are setting the region from Measure 009 - 016 as the eight measures you are splitting to Section A…
__ Try fast forwarding the Song to Measure 009, just before you press the [JOB] button, and setup to “Split Song to Pattern”
__ Make sure the feature called “SongEventChase” = all
[UTILITY] > [F2] SEQ > [SF3] OTHER
“SongEventChase” will ensure that when you advance the Sequencer Transport to a specific measure location in the linear timeline, the MOXF system will “look” into the preceding measures of each Track of the Song for what Volume, what Pan position, what Pitch Bend value, where the MW was, etc., etc. even what Program Change should be active. If, indeed, volume settings have changes this feature will find exactly what the most recent volume message was, and automatically make that most recent setting is transferred to the Pattern Mixing.

This should take care of any changes… I can’t say for 100% certain without actually seeing the MIDI Event data and how it was prepared… Other things that can impact this situation are if there are a bunch of General MIDI commands (Reset, Sysex, etc) involved in the data… but since no mention was made of GM, no need to cover this, now… data you prepared yourself will unlikely have any conflicting affect.
Extra Credit:
__ You should know that CC message automation is always best done when the composition is in a linear format. The Looping/Cycling nature of Pattern Mode can wreck havoc with changes that are meant (musically speaking) to happen only once This is a very important point to take into account when splitting linear data to Pattern mode.

Let us know.

 
Posted : 17/12/2021 6:26 pm
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

OK. Thanks, BM. That sounds like what's going on. I will try that Record Standby technique and the other tips.

Two follow-ups:

1. What if Pattern Section A was the entire Song and all subsequent Sections were created WITHIN Pattern using only Pattern Job options? Would the Sections STILL get confused?

2. You have been exchanging with me on another thread re: Volume spikes when working exclusively in SONG. It was suggested that all pedals be taken out of the rig as well the APC battery/surge suppressor I was using. I did that and it did NOT resolve the sudden volume spike problem. Is it possible that something similar is happening when I'm working in Song mode? That is, the Song Part is losing contact with the linear information while I'm working elsewhere? When you're in Song mode, busy mixing, adding and tweaking events, re-recording -- having to re-cue to the TOP and then FF back to the area you were working on would surely NOT be standard operating procedure for mixing a Song, correct?

 
Posted : 17/12/2021 9:41 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

1. What if Pattern Section A was the entire Song and all subsequent Sections were created WITHIN Pattern using only Pattern Job options? Would the Sections STILL get confused?

Sorry, I don’t understand… would they be confused about being Split to Song??? No, if you make Pattern Sections in Pattern mode there is no possible confusion. Also working initially in Pattern Mode, you avoid most automated changes via CC messages — which are typically added once a Pattern has been converted to a linear Song.

2. You have been exchanging with me on another thread re: Volume spikes when working exclusively in SONG. It was suggested that all pedals be taken out of the rig as well the APC battery/surge suppressor I was using. I did that and it did NOT resolve the sudden volume spike problem. Is it possible that something similar is happening when I'm working in Song mode?

No way I could possible know. I would very much doubt it. When the unit isn’t properly powered, if that is the case, what usually happens is the unit doesn’t work. It does not start changing specific data. I gave you the way to explore this yourself. Check the data. Find out what is changing. Assume MIDI Events are not randomly changing on their own (it doesn’t break like that when it breaks), assume it’s MIDI events that are causing the behavior you are getting. What did you discover?

That is, the Song Part is losing contact with the linear information while I'm working elsewhere? When you're in Song mode, busy mixing, adding and tweaking events, re-recording -- having to re-cue to the TOP and then FF back to the area you were working on would surely NOT be standard operating procedure for mixing a Song, correct?

You would never have to do that. I told you how to have the MOXF automatically update to whatever measure you start from… SongEventChase.

What I may ask you to do in troubleshooting would NOT necessarily be what you do when you’re busy mixing, adding and/or tweaking events…it’s ONLY for troubleshooting; but if you having automated changes (fade Ins, fade outs, Program Changes, effect send level changes, etc., etc.) and you do not have SongEventChase = all, then you must remember — your automated changes will not be respected if you do not START from the top.

It’s your choice — choose wisely! Choose to use SongEventChase when in Song mode! If you don’t, your data will transfer to Pattern mode wherever controllers are set when you do the conversion. Try it out.
I recommend before executing the Split, Fast Forward the transport to the first measure of the region you are defining. Doing so, guarantees that Controllers (CC), Pitch Bend values, etc., will be transferred properly to the Pattern Section.

 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:30 pm
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