1) Even loading the Voice data from a file one by one, should not duplicate the Waveforms. It is very likely that you loaded the data from two different files. The S700 data is three principal Waveforms. A soft strike Waveform set of 90 samples, a medium strike a Waveform set of 90 samples and a hard strike Waveform set of 90 samples.

2) all the voices in the collection with “S700” in the name use the same Waveforms (as the core piano sound Source) - and when the same file is the source the Waveforms should not duplicate.

3) The Yamaha programming team recognized the popularity of the S700 piano. The back story is, this was a piano sample made especially for the S80 (an 88-Key weighted action synth/piano - researched and built with the US market in mind). A special hand crafted $250,000 Yamaha S700 Concert Grand was meticulously sampled... while I can’t speak much about exactly how Yamaha does sampling, the S700 acoustic piano as implemented in the S80 was a huge hit. The S80 paved the way for the MOTIF series. The S80 used a Waveform set developed from that sample session.

In 2002 the first S90 was released, again using an S700 as the principal piano sound. And by the time the S90ES hit in 2005, the S700 had evolved into the three-way Velocity switching sound that reached the “legendary” status among some players. The ‘magic’ is in how the S700 is a non-explosive sound. Many acoustic piano samples are done by sampling across the keyboard range using a hard strike force and then by using filters they darken the tone when you want soft - and open the filter for hard strikes (not always optimum). Yamaha does this differently... The three strikes make a big difference in the sound - and the character of the S700 piano (Smooth, silky) comes through.

In general the more velocity strikes (in theory) the more realistic the behavior. A crash cymbal struck hard still manages to sound like a crash cymbal struck hard, no matter what velocity you play it back at. The explosion of harmonics gives it away. Same is true (too a lesser extent) for Piano samples... a soft strike has less harmonic than a medium it hard strike. If you have to analyze why this particular piano became so popular ... it’s in this non-explosive silky smooth quality. I got to play an actual S700 acoustic and that’s a life altering experience. (Oh, to have $250,000 and a room big enough to have one...) it’s a special character that comes through. And while it has loyal fans ... some play it an miss the explosive percussive quality of other piano samples... it’s always personal choice.

4) all Voices with “S700” in the name use those 3 Waveforms ... in one of the later programmed versions from Yamaha include a fourth Waveform to recreate KEY OFF Sound (the dampers falling back to the strings, etc).

5) the collections you speak of are exactly what you wished for... Yamaha programmers doing their thing to a customer favorite.... updating it with the faster envelopes and filters if the product described in the name. S700 for XS vs. S700 for XF... Each optimized for the features available in 2007 and 2010 respectively.

We should mention that the John Melas Motif Waveform Editor is the most elegant way to assemble sounds for the MOTIF XF and/or MOXF... It allows you to quickly and elegantly assemble Voice Libraries, remove duplicates, and create your own custom (loadable) ALL data files. In your case you would create a File ztype loadable by the MOXF.

Thank you very much, Phil!

Since the waveforms are the same, I can safely assign them manually. The keyoff samples for S700 seem to be internal CF3 waveform..That's great!

🙂

Got it! I found an answer to the problem with duplicated Waveforms!

It happens after I turn my MOXF off and on again to load more sounds.

I loaded the new sounds (with Waveforms) yesterday and turn MOXF off. I wanted to add more sounds today (sounds using the same Waveforms from the same file) and I got the message: Sample memory full. Yes, that's it, there's no room for the duplicated Waveforms.

I can confirm that the sounds were loaded from the same file and the same USB flash drive. All of the patches use 2 same Waveforms. I chcecked it very carefully.

I think, perhaps, you're missing a very fundamental thing here... once you install the Waveform and Samples, they remain in memory. Even after you power down and then power on again tomorrow. Even if you load new Voices to all the User Banks... overwriting the Voices, the Waveform List and Samples remain in memory... same as the Factory Waveforms and Samples.

After you have installed data to your Flash ... Every File you make from this point on will include *your* Waveform List ... that list will direct the Voices in that file to the large audio Sampled data on the Flash Board. The Waveform List and Samples remain even when you load other Voices to USER 1-4 and UDR. This is the point of the Flash.

From this point forward those Waveforms/Samples never need to be loaded again. What that means is the next time you want to load the S700 Voice data you can load it "without sample". If you don't use that Load Option, "without sample" then you don't understand what Flash is about... and you will fill your Board unnecessarily.

When you Load "without Samples" This means the VOICE data loads in seconds. The VOICE data is one of *your* own File that contains the key to *your* Waveform List.. and the Samples they organize.

Don't mix up the process of selecting Voices from a Library File to install to Flash... and what you do after you power down

When initially selecting individual Voices from an ALL data file to install to Flash ... say you only want the S700 pianos from the Ultimate Piano collection... you would use Load TYPE = "voice"
you would select the first Voice one with "S700" in the name, and you would Load it to your selected USER location. Because it is the very first one with S700 Waveforms and Samples it will take several minutes to load as the MOXF loads the Voice data to the internal User Bank, and the three Waveforms to the Waveform List and the 270 Samples to the Flash Board. Next you decide you want to load the "S700 Balled Keys"... this is when BECAUSE the data is coming from the same File, MOXF will see that this new selection uses the exact same three Waveforms it already installed to Flash... it will simply load the Voice data to the User Bank, and it "reprints" the Elements to the Waveforms it just catalogued and installed. So the "S700 Ballad Keys" loads in about a second and a half... BECAUSE THE BIG DATA is already in memory. You can load each of the other S700 Voices in just about as fast as you can select them and press Execute.

Once you have done this. You never have to do it again.

So tomorrow... when you turn on your MOXF all the sounds are there.
Now, say you load an All data file from a couple of years ago, or you initialize your internal User Banks.

When you want to play the S700 sounds you would find *your* file and Load All without sample You don't need to because they are already on the Flash Board.

If you FAIL to load WITHOUT SAMPLE... you will duplicate Waveforms... and if you don't stop doing this eventually you will fill the Flash Board with duplicates of the data. You must understand the reason for Flash fir it to work FOR YOU... otherwise it's going to just be a waste of time.

You can review your WAVEFORM LIST...
Press [FILE]
Press [F6] FLASH
Press [SF2] DELETE
a list of your MOXF's current Waveform List appears

Waveforms are not overwritten by loading. Waveforms always go to the lowest number empty location

I'm sorry, it looks like a misunderstanding.

S 700 is OK, all its presets work fine.

But:

I purchased third-party library from Gospelmusicians. I want to have different grand pianos in my MOXF. I love playing pianos, I really do..

I started to load presets one by one from USB flash drive (Voice with Waveforms). The new Waveforms in my Flash module are numbered 21 and 22. I loaded first 8 presets (Kawai EX, Kawai Dark etc..). The Waveforms were not duplicated, everything went fine. Then I turned off my MOXF and went to bed.
In the morning I powered up my MOXF and continued loading voices one by one with the same setting as yesterday - Voice with Waveforms. The reason for this is when I load without Waveform, the voice preset cannot find the correct Waveforms (n. 21 and 22)., it show some other numbers.
Then I got error message: Sample memory full. I beileve this was an attempt to duplicate Waveforms already installed in my flash module. There are no other Waveforms for Gospelmusicians' Kawai grand piano than those two mentioned above.

Why didn't the Waveforms duplicate yesterday when I loaded voices one by one?

Sorry, I am having difficulty understanding the issue.