Synth Forum

Notifications
Clear all

Why am I getting low output when recording MX49?

5 Posts
2 Users
0 Reactions
3,527 Views
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I am using Audacity to record the MX49. I am connected via usb. The audio records, and when I play it back it sounds to be the same level as my playing, but the meters in Audacity are showing the decibel level to be very low. What is going on? Everything else I try recording in Audacity behaves normally. Only the MX49 behaves this way. Again, I am connected only by USB from MX to my laptop.

 
Posted : 03/04/2018 9:29 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

There are several things that influence your audio output level when recording a synth like the MX to a computer via USB.

First, we should explain the difference between VOLUME and GAIN. Volume is the human perception of how loud something is... while Gain is the measurement of how much level it produces. While related, they can exist independent of each other.

Volume is measured by your ear/brain exclusively, Gain can be measured by a Meter.

If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one to hear it... there is no volume, but certainly if a microphone and recorder were there we could register the movement of the meter!

Okay, with that background, understand how loud you are listening to the MX has no bearing on the level you are getting. What does influence it is the Voice Volume, the Part Volume, and the Velocity with which you play the keys.

Voice Volume - this equates to the volume control the musician has locally on their instrument
Part Volume - this equates to the volume control the band's mixer applies when combining multiple sound going to the Output
Velocity - impacts those sounds that respond to velocity sensitivity, like piano, guitars, flute, strings drum etc... where the harder you strike the key the more output level you get.

Not sure of several things... which MX49 you own, what version firmware you have installed in your MX (there was an update for the original MX49), do you have access to any of the MX49 Editors (these can make deeper editing of the MX49 possible). What is your workflow? Are you recording one Voice at a time, or are you doing MIDI Tracks first? What type of Metering are you using? Please don't assume we know from what you wrote ... these things are not mentioned... so from our view there is plenty of room for operator error...

Let us know, we can show you how to get better record levels using your gear

 
Posted : 04/04/2018 1:04 pm
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I used the version job, and this is what it gave me: Boot:1.01 Firm:1.00 (C)2016 Yamaha Corp. The display on the MX49 has a black background instead of a blue one. I think this means I have the newer version. I am using the free VycroMX editor, but so far I have not used it in conjunction with Audacity. I am running Audacity 2.1.2, in Windows 7.

I am basically completely new to recording, so please forgive me if I am unfamiliar with the proper terminology. In my original question I asked why I was getting "low output" because I wasn't sure what other word to use.

I am simply trying to do a test recording for now. I am using the ConcrtGrand voice of Performance One with no edits. The part volume is 127. In the input recording section of Audacity when I start monitoring and playing the decibel level only reaches about -30 when I play with a medium velocity. At maximum velocity playing it only reaches about -14. I switched to PwrStdKit1 voice, and was able to get it up to -9. I also tried connecting the audio from the MX49 headphones into my PC's microphone jack. The result was the same. The meter always remain green, and never enters into yellow, orange, or red. I am able to get the meter into the red easily by simply whistling for the Laptop's internal microphone. From my limited understanding I'm supposed to be in the orange. Is that correct? Again, apologies if I'm unable to be more clear.

 
Posted : 05/04/2018 8:27 am
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Bad Mister wrote:

There are several things that influence your audio output level when recording a synth like the MX to a computer via USB.

First, we should explain the difference between VOLUME and GAIN. Volume is the human perception of how loud something is... while Gain is the measurement of how much level it produces. While related, they can exist independent of each other.

Volume is measured by your ear/brain exclusively, Gain can be measured by a Meter.

If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one to hear it... there is no volume, but certainly if a microphone and recorder were there we could register the movement of the meter!

Okay, with that background, understand how loud you are listening to the MX has no bearing on the level you are getting. What does influence it is the Voice Volume, the Part Volume, and the Velocity with which you play the keys.

Voice Volume - this equates to the volume control the musician has locally on their instrument
Part Volume - this equates to the volume control the band's mixer applies when combining multiple sound going to the Output
Velocity - impacts those sounds that respond to velocity sensitivity, like piano, guitars, flute, strings drum etc... where the harder you strike the key the more output level you get.

Not sure of several things... which MX49 you own, what version firmware you have installed in your MX (there was an update for the original MX49), do you have access to any of the MX49 Editors (these can make deeper editing of the MX49 possible). What is your workflow? Are you recording one Voice at a time, or are you doing MIDI Tracks first? What type of Metering are you using? Please don't assume we know from what you wrote ... these things are not mentioned... so from our view there is plenty of room for operator error...

Let us know, we can show you how to get better record levels using your gear

I forgot to quote you, so you would know that I responded.

 
Posted : 05/04/2018 8:28 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

No worries, you are expressing yourself just fine. Output, as I explained, has two different definitions, one affects recording level as seen on a meter, and the other has no bearing on the recorded level.

In other words, if you connect the MX to your computer and your speakers were Off... you could still record signal from the MX to the computer. That output can move a meter. The signal (separate signal) that is fed to the speakers can be loud or soft, off or on, without influencing the level recorded.

But, of course, you need to hear yourself in order to play properly. That is all that is meant by the definitions. I don't want you to think turning up the main Volume of the MX will fix your record levels. It will not.

I mentioned, VOICE Volume, PART Volume, and Velocity as the three things that affect your record levels...
I also asked about the type of Metering because a signal that reaches -9 on a meter registering peak voltage would be read entirely differently from one that is a VU meter. There are many types of meters... Reaching the amber is considered a warning, and reaching the red is an extreme warning (never reach the red, never reach the red, they made it red to warn you that like bleeding from your aorta it is not a healthy thing and should be avoided like getting stabbed in the heart!!!) Seriously, take red on the meter, as more than a warning but as a fatal flaw in your recording.

Different metering systems may use the three colors as good, better, stop....in general, where it remains green throughout safe levels, as you approach between -9 and -6 you are in the "happy" signal Zone... as you go past -6 you should be getting serious warnings... depending on the coloring system it is looking more and more red.... at 0 you have reached the point at which CLIPPING can occur. Reaching 0 does not always cause a bogus noise that you can hear, but too many clips will guarantee a harsh, difficult to listen to result... a meter's maximum that is dancing between -9 and -6 is generallly a very happy signal.

Piano uses velocity to increase output level... the triple forte section of the piano piece is going to move the meter a lot more than the pianissimo section. If you make both -6 on the meter - where is you "dynamic range"... do not be afraid of -12... unless that is a fff. I can totally see a -12 on a piano piece as maximum. Get a feel for the Soft to Loud range of your instrument... and what that looks like on meters.

Please recognize that the more percussive the sound the more likely it is to have "transient peaks" peaks so FAST they hardly register on your meter - think of a snare Drum being hit by a stick... the energy is initially very very high, the response of the Drum follows, it is somewhat less than that initial attack. The initial attack is so fast a meter that registers PEAK Voltage will spike sometimes more than 10dB above what is shown on a VU meter, so anticipate that percussive (hammered/struck/plucked) sounds tend to have this transient spike that can, if ignored, cause overloads. A snare drum that reaches 0 is fundamental wrong because of the "transient peak".

The objective of measuring levels has changed from back in the 20th century (where we were trying to elevate our recorded gear above the "noise floor"), today, the "noise floor" is almost a non-factor, so the objective of measuring levels is to keep from sending too much signal from all channels and creating a non-dynamic, overly LOUD recording.

See if you can find some tips and tricks in your DAWs documentation for setting levels by the metering system offered... even if they don't tell you what type of meter, there may be some 'best practices' that they recommend in terms of good record levels.

By the way, the drums being a bit louder than the piano seems exactly as it would be in the real world.

The MX49 is typically always in PERFORMANCE mode, where a different Voice is placed in each of the 16 Parts... making it ideal for multi-part, multi-timbral recording with a MIDI DAW.

This is why I asked if for you were recording MIDI first.
However, you are recalling individual Voices and playing directly as audio to your DAW.

What you can do:
To increase the "VOICE Volume" in the MX49, according to the MX DATA LIST booklet, you need to address the parameter with a Parameter Change (Sysex) message.

F0 43 10 7F 17 40 00 3F dd F7
where 'dd' is the Voice Volume 00-7F

Sending this message to the currently selected Voice will set the Voice Volume. Sending F0 43 10 7F 17 40 00 3F 7F F7 would set the Voice Volume to 127.

In a real world analogy, VOICE Volume would be the "Local" volume control the musician would have at their instrument. Think... a guitar player's instrument volume. The Rhodes' own volume control... seen as separate from the Part Volume which is akin to the Fader on the band's mixer. So if the recording engineer isn't getting enough level they ask the musician to turn their local volume up.

You can then use the PART Volume like you would an external mixer.

If you cannot send System Exclusive messages to your MX49 you have two other options:
1) use an external mixer/audio interface to adjust your record levels
2) invest in the John Melas Tools for the MX49/MX61/MX88 - which features a full complement of Voice, Performance and Drum Editors... which allow you get at all of the greyed out parameters in your DATA LIST booklet...

As you may know, the MX is built from the same engine as its siblings the Motif series and the MOXF series... the parameters are there, but accessible via the Parameter Change (Sysex) messages. On the bigger models these "behind the scene" parameters are accessible from the front panel... on the MX series you must access them by MIDI messages... either directly (Data List booklet) or through an Voice Editor (as in the Melas suite of Tools).

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 05/04/2018 12:28 pm
Share:

© 2024 Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us