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Does MoDX support connecting multiple midi devices to it?

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 ang
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I attached a MIDI keyboard to the USB host port on MoDX and it works fine. I want to attach a second MIDI controller (a pad controller) which I plan to send PC message to switch between live sets, however if I attach it to MoDX (via a usb hub) the MIDI keyboard which attached first cannot trigger sound from MoDX any more. Is it because that MoDX does not support connecting multiple MIDI devices via USB?

 
Posted : 17/01/2023 9:19 am
Jason
Posts: 7919
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I attached a MIDI keyboard to the USB host port on

I'm guessing what you mean is you are attaching a MIDI keyboard to MODX's USB TO DEVICE port (not USB TO HOST).

At any rate, although not explicitly stated - it's probably limited to a single device.

This function now enables this instrument to receive MIDI data from an external MIDI keyboard / controller connected to the [USB TO DEVICE].

It's not strong "proof" (the messaging could be stronger) - but "an" implies one.

The usual (MIDI) way to support more than one would be to chain - but that requires either of the USB MIDI devices to support using the other MIDI controller as an input over USB and also that this MIDI IN (USB) of that device would pass through these messages (MIDI THRU).

 
Posted : 17/01/2023 6:31 pm
 ang
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Hi Jason,
Thanks for providing help. Yes I mean the USB to device port, sorry for the typo. I did another test which is to attach a USB thumb drive besides the MIDI keyboard and both devices worked fine. So guess it is the firmware constraint that only one USB MIDI device can be recognized.
Unfortunately neither device offer MID thru functionality so as a workaround I just plugged in the Pad controller via MIDI port. A little bit more trouble since I have to power it up separately but guess is the most accessible solution at the moment.

 
Posted : 18/01/2023 1:51 pm
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Hi ang,

if you get MIDI over the 5 pin and MIDI over USB working at the same time, can you let me know how?

Not been able to do that.

 
Posted : 18/01/2023 2:17 pm
Jason
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@Andrew:

I think you may be asking about USB over the USB TO HOST port. Use of a device on the USB TO DEVICE port does not require the interface mode to be set to USB (it can be 5-pin DIN). Therefore, USB TO DEVICE connected MIDI controllers can coexist with 5-pin DIN using the "MIDI" I/O mode.

Different from what the OP is doing ...

If you happened to want to use USB TO DEVICE & 5-pin DIN (talking to MODX, not for controlling a PC DAW/software) & USB TO HOST (mode set to USB) then you'd need the computer connected over USB to have its software (DAW, etc) echo back MIDI messages to USB (MIDI) Port 3. So these would come in on Port 1 and then be sent out Port 3 on the corresponding channels the messages come in as. This would send your 5-pin DIN messages over to your MODX. You could also add an "echo" in the opposite direction where messages coming from MODX's Port 1 over USB (coming from the keyboard) would be sent back out to Port 3 to reach the 5-pin DIN device. Say if you had a keyboard on 5-pin DIN with a tone generator and you wanted to use MODX's keys to control it.

 
Posted : 18/01/2023 8:23 pm
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I have not tried hooking up two MIDI devices, but I do use a USB hub and have a thumbdrive and my CP73 in at the same time and that configuration does work.

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 1:58 am
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[quotePost id=120090]@Andrew:

I think you may be asking about USB over the USB TO HOST port. Use of a device on the USB TO DEVICE port does not require the interface mode to be set to USB (it can be 5-pin DIN). Therefore, USB TO DEVICE connected MIDI controllers can coexist with 5-pin DIN using the "MIDI" I/O mode.

Different from what the OP is doing ...

If you happened to want to use USB TO DEVICE & 5-pin DIN (talking to MODX, not for controlling a PC DAW/software) & USB TO HOST (mode set to USB) then you'd need the computer connected over USB to have its software (DAW, etc) echo back MIDI messages to USB (MIDI) Port 3. So these would come in on Port 1 and then be sent out Port 3 on the corresponding channels the messages come in as. This would send your 5-pin DIN messages over to your MODX. You could also add an "echo" in the opposite direction where messages coming from MODX's Port 1 over USB (coming from the keyboard) would be sent back out to Port 3 to reach the 5-pin DIN device. Say if you had a keyboard on 5-pin DIN with a tone generator and you wanted to use MODX's keys to control it.
[/quotePost]

No, not this, at all.

If anyone ever accuses you of working for Yamaha, as I have in the past, the above is a prime example of why.

You've isolated the ONLY scenario in which the two types of ports can act together, and failed to even acknowledge all the other ways it can't, and the ways which are EXACTLY contextual to this discussion. Namely: EXTERNAL controllers used to control the MODX.

Why would you do that if you don't work for Yamaha?

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 2:34 am
Jason
Posts: 7919
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Your statement was pretty simple. I responded directly to it with complete information.

If you don't like how I answered your question - that's not really my issue.

... but if you want to know how to NOT make it work (that's not what you asked) then I'd be happy to add:

In USB mode you cannot have the 5-pin DIN connected device directly communicate with MODX's tone generator. Because USB mode switches the train tracks away from the tone generator and to USB instead. Thus severing the direct connection to the tone generator that is otherwise present using MIDI mode.

So without a USB connected device (or a connected device with proper software setup), you cannot use USB mode to have 5-pin DIN connected hardware communicate with MODX's tone generator.

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 3:11 am
Jason
Posts: 7919
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@Chris

MODX/Montage also unofficially support multiple devices connected to the USB TO DEVICE port. It's best to have a powered hub not to load the keyboard. Folks that use an external display (using a USB to HDMI device) a hub is usually used so that a USB flash stick and external display can be used at the same time. A QWERTY keyboard is also a device that works with MODX/Montage.

Generically, multiple USB devices will work but it seems only one of them can be MIDI (USB TO DEVICE port).

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 3:27 am
Posts: 1717
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[quotePost id=120094]Your statement was pretty simple. I responded directly to it with complete information.

If you don't like how I answered your question - that's not really my issue.

... but if you want to know how to NOT make it work (that's not what you asked) then I'd be happy to add:

In USB mode you cannot have the 5-pin DIN connected device directly communicate with MODX's tone generator. Because USB mode switches the train tracks away from the tone generator and to USB instead. Thus severing the direct connection to the tone generator that is otherwise present using MIDI mode.

So without a USB connected device (or a connected device with proper software setup), you cannot use USB mode to have 5-pin DIN connected hardware communicate with MODX's tone generator.
[/quotePost]

post modernism opinionism?

You didn't answer the question. You created a question that wasn't there, and supposed that to be something you'd answer, despite the fact the original question wasn't that, and wasn't asked of you.

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 3:29 am
Jason
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if you get MIDI over the 5 pin and MIDI over USB working at the same time can you let me know how?

Answered w/added caveats.

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 4:34 am
Posts: 1717
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It doesn't seem possible to drive the MODX with two external controllers - one each via USB and MIDI 5 pin.

It's also seemingly not possible to drive the MODX via MIDI 5 Pin and emit the resultant MIDI signals via USB.

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 6:08 am
 ang
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Topic starter
 

@Chris I also did a followup test on this setup and also worked. So I'm guessing that my hub works fine with MoDX. It is only that MoDX just does not support multiple USB MIDI devices.
@Jason Hi Jason, can you pls explain the port 3 a bit further? Its functionality is not covered anywhere in the manual.

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 7:29 am
Jason
Posts: 7919
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Documentation to reference: https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/modx/mastering-modx-midi-settings-explained

On the computer, the driver presents 3 USB "ports".

From the linked tutorial ...

There are 3 Ports on MIDI IN/OUTs via the USB connection:
Port 1 - used by the MODX internal tone generator for music performing (note-ons, controllers, tempo);
Port 2 - is used for Remote Control commands between the front panel of the hardware and DAW software;
Port 3 - connect one external device via standard 5-pin MIDI I/O Ports. Items routed from the computer on "MODX Port 3" will be passed through the MODX and go OUT the 5-pin jack on the back panel. And conversely, any information arriving at the 5-pin MIDI IN of the MODX will be routed through to the DAW as "MODX Port 3".

Or, from the owner's manual https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/5/1162395/modx6_modx7_modx8_en_om_a0.pdf page 56:

MIDI channels and MIDI ports
MIDI data is assigned to one of sixteen channels, and this
synthesizer is capable of simultaneously playing sixteen
separate Parts, via the sixteen MIDI channels. However,
the sixteen-channel limit can be overcome by using
separate MIDI “ports,” each supporting sixteen channels.
While a single MIDI cable is equipped to handle data over
up to sixteen channels simultaneously, a USB connection
is capable of handling far more—thanks to the use of MIDI
ports. Each MIDI port can handle sixteen channels, and
the USB connection allows up to eight ports, letting you
use up to 128 channels (8 ports x 16 channels) on your
computer.
When connecting this instrument to a computer using a
USB cable, the MIDI ports are defined as follows:

Port 1
The tone generator block in this instrument can recognize
and use only this port. When playing the MODX as a tone
generator from the external MIDI instrument or computer,
you should set the MIDI Port to 1 on the connected MIDI
device or computer.

Port 3
This port is used as the MIDI Thru Port. The MIDI data
received over Port 3 via the [USB TO HOST] terminal will
be re-transmitted to an external MIDI device via the MIDI
[OUT] terminal.

The MIDI data received over Port 3 via the MIDI [IN]
terminal will be re-transmitted to an external device
(computer, etc.) via the [USB TO HOST] terminal. When
using a USB connection, make sure to match the MIDI
transmit port and the MIDI receive port as well as the MIDI
transmit channel and the MIDI receive channel. Make sure
to set the MIDI port of the external device connected to this
instrument according to the above information.

... Port 2 isn't documented in the MODX owner's manual (it is in a supplemental manual for MODX) but Port 2 is for Remote (DAW) Control.

The MODX+ documentation is more complete since Remote Control was available at day 1 of MODX+

Usage of each MIDI port
When this instrument is connected to a computer with the
[USB TO HOST] terminal, the computer recognizes three
MIDI ports for different usages.
For the MODX+, the usage of each port is as follows.
Select the appropriate port on the computer side,
according to the application.

Port 1: For communication between the tone
generator section of this instrument and the
computer

If you want to play the tone generator of this instrument
from your computer, or if you want your computer to
receive performance information from this instrument,
select Port 1 on your computer.

Port 2: For DAW remote function
If you want to use this instrument to remotely control
your DAW software, select Port 2 on your computer. For
details on how to set and use the DAW remote function,
refer to the Reference Manual.

Port 3: For using this instrument as a USB-MIDI
interface

If you want to connect an external MIDI device that does
not have a USB terminal to a computer via the MIDI [IN]/
[OUT] terminals of this instrument, select Port 3 on the
computer.
When “MIDI IN/OUT” (page 54) is set to “USB,” the MIDI
[IN]/[OUT] terminals of this instrument are directly
connected to Port 3, and are disconnected from the tone
generator section.

NOTE
• These Ports are only valid when “MIDI IN/OUT” (page 54) is
set to “USB.”
• Each Port can handle 16 channels of MIDI data

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 4:49 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Does the MODX Support multiple MIDI Devices?

Yes, connect the MODX USB “TO HOST” port to a smart device (computer/tablet/laptop) running a DAW or other software (You are provided with a free entry-level version of Cubase AI for Mac or Win PC — you can use this, as an example. Most pro DAW software will provide a method to configure multiple MIDI controllers to feed into any one device, the MODX is no different.

The Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver allows your MODX to address the computer on three separate MIDI Ports (Identified as MODX-1, MODX-2 and MODX-3). Each Port is the equivalent of 16 Channels IN plus 16 Channels OUT… all through the USB “TO HOST” connection.

This means you must set the MIDI I/O = USB.
Press [UTILITY] > touch "Settings" > touch "MIDI I/O
This allows the synth to communicate MIDI directly to/from the smart host device (computer/tablet/laptop) and turns the 5-pin MIDI ports into separate In/Out for an external device, as follows:

MODX-1 Port 1 is the 16 Channel In/Out for the MODX’s 16 Part internal Tone Generator

MODX-2 Port 2 is used to turn the MODX front panel into a Remote Control surface for your DAW (if compatible) and any VSTi plug-ins you may wish to control when you place the MODX in “REMOTE” mode.

MODX-3 Port 3 is the physical 5-pin MIDI Ports on the MODX’s back panel allowing you to connect an external device to your system. When you are set to MIDI I/O = USB, the external device will address the computer (Host) on Port 3 and items routed to and from the computer on MODX-3 (Port 3) will arrive at the external device via the 5-pin MIDI OUT connection and data sent from that external device will arrive in the computer on MODX-3 (Port 3). (Instead of just sitting idle, when operating via USB-MIDI, the 5-pin ports support an external MIDI device by snding the data on through to the computer and data from the computer on through to the external device (you know, like any MIDI interface) — You route to it via your DAW MIDI Track assignment)

Configuration:
In Cubase, for example, you can set up the Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver so that any device connected to the computer can be routed to your MODX. You can configure as many control devices as you have USB Ports on your host (or on an appropriate hub device). When configuring the "MIDI PORT SETUP":
Set the “IN ‘All MIDI Inputs’” so each device you want to use as a controller is set to feed data to "MODX-1 (Port 1)". You can set as many devices as you have to be MIDI Input (controllers) to the MODX.

They can even be used simultaneously.

Any device connected to Cubase can be routed to any device in your setup.
If you target MIDI OUT as Port 1, the MODX will respond.
If you target MIDI OUT as Port 3, the device connected to the 5-pin MIDI jack will respond.
Port 2 must be kept discreet (for Remote Control commands only).

If you have several MIDI controllers set to Output to MODX-1 (Port 1), they each can trigger the MODX on whatever MIDI Channel(s), 1-16, that you route it to… be it the same or different channels.

The MODX has both an audio and a MIDI interface built-in. When using the USB-MIDI ("To Host") connection, the 5-pin Ports bypass the MODX internal engine. If you want an external controller to play the internal tone engine simply set the MIDI Out (in your software) to “MODX-1 (Port 1)”.

As to the USB “To Device” Port — this connector is primarily used for storage devices (like a USB stick or thumb drive)… but with a recent system update, its role was expanded as a means to connect controllers that do not feature a standard 5-pin MIDI OUT jack (Many newer controllers no longer feature a standard MIDI Out). This way into the MODX simply allows you to connect such a device to *replace* the on-board keybed. It is not a two-way MIDI connection… it simply allows you to use a simple/inexpensive controller that has no 5-pin Out to function as the MODX keys.

The following is from the Supplementary Manual which details how the “To Device” feature is designed to work:....................

MIDI Data Reception with USB TO DEVICE:
This function now enables this instrument to receive MIDI data from an external MIDI keyboard / controller connected to the [USB TO DEVICE].

Supported MIDI equipment: MIDI devices that are USB MIDI class compliant and devices tested by Yamaha

* For a list of devices tested by Yamaha, refer to the link below:
https://www.yamaha.com/2/modx

NOTE: The maximum rated value of the [USB TO DEVICE] is 5V/500mA. Do not connect to USB devices that exceed the rated value, since such devices may cause damage to the instrument.

NOTE: This function does not support MIDI data transmission to a connected device via the [USB TO DEVICE] on this instrument.

__ When MIDI I/O Mode is set to Multi
• Channel events, received through channels corresponding to Parts with Keyboard Control Switch set to On, are received in parallel by all Parts with Keyboard Control Switch set to On. After receiving, when this instrument transmits MIDI data, all note data of the channel corresponding to parts with Keyboard Control Switch set to On are transmitted.

• Channel events received via the channel that corresponds to the Part with Keyboard Control Switch set to Off affect the corresponding Part. After receiving, when this instrument transmits MIDI data, the same channels used for receiving are used to transmit the channel data.

__ When the MIDI I/O Mode is set to Single or Hybrid
• Channel events, received through channels corresponding to Parts with Keyboard Control Switch set to On, are received in parallel by all Parts with Keyboard Control Switch set to On. However, when this instrument receives Control Change messages regarded as Common parameters and the MIDI I/O mode is set to Single, this instrument does not send Control Change messages to the Part and instead treats them as Common parameters. After receiving, Sending of Control Change messages is done according to the MIDI I/O Channel setting.

• Channel events received via the channel that corresponds to the Part with Keyboard Control Switch set to Off are received by the corresponding Parts. The received MIDI data is not re-transmitted when the MIDI I/O mode is set to Single.

--

 
Posted : 19/01/2023 4:53 pm
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