I'm using them for my Roli Seaboard. It uses the top 8 parts for its own purposes and I have the bottom 8 for 'normal' playing.

Please see the following articles for ideas on using and creating Performances, including using Parts 9-16 (with examples):

Performance Basics and Live Set 1

Performance Basics and Live Set 2

You cannot assign the LOCAL keyboard to multiple PARTs 9-16 at the same time - true - but you can:

1) Assign an EXTERNAL keyboard to control PARTs 9-16

2) Force the LOCAL keyboard to control any _single_ PART 9-16 (one at a time) by selecting the PART: [SHIFT] + [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] then use touchscreen or arrow left/right to pick a single part (should be highlighted with a white border around the PART 9-16)

3) Novel idea: some effects will sound even without any notes being played - check out the "lo-fi" section. You can setup envelope follower using one of the parts 1-8 as the source and have the follower force the effect on/off, change the level, etc (Control Assign editing on the target Part 9-16 with Envelope Follower as the source).

4) Assuming you can have an external device start an arpeggio on Parts 9-16, you can manipulate the ARP using a similar method as the "novel idea" above (including pitch and many other destinations)

5) As long as you know what you're getting into: MIDI cable feed Montage MIDI OUT back to MIDI IN and setup Parts 1-8 Zone Transmit Channel to Midi Ch 9-16

I'm using them for my Roli Seaboard. It uses the top 8 parts for its own purposes and I have the bottom 8 for 'normal' playing.

Are you using channels 9-16 for Roli's MPE feature?

Christine wrote:

I'm using them for my Roli Seaboard. It uses the top 8 parts for its own purposes and I have the bottom 8 for 'normal' playing.

How's the Roli Seabord's "keybed"?

| Are you using channels 9-16 for Roli's MPE feature?

Sort of. The Montage doesn't support the actual MPE standard so it has to be disabled on the Seaboard, but the main way it works is still to send one note per MIDI channel (to allow polyphonic bends etc) so I get 8 note polyphony from using channels 9-16. Which is fine for my Seaboard 25

| How's the Roli Seabord's "keybed"?

Very different from a normal keyboard! I like it but I know people that don't get on with it. I come from violin where I'm used to that sort of expressiveness under my fingers 🙂 I strongly recommend trying one before buying - but try it for half an hour or so to really get the feel of it.

Don't think of it as a 'keybed', think of it as a totally different way of expressing notes.

Yep, and it is actually quite easy. Even I managed to plug-and-play this.

I have two 88 midi-keyboards (2 and 6 on the picture) . On this midi-keyboard you can set the midi-channels for instance to 9 (main),10 (layer) and 11 (split). This gives you 3 more parts/sounds to play. With the second keyboards you do the same but use another channel. E.g. 12, 13,14. You can even use such a pedal-board as Hammond-organs use. Playing bass with your feet. Or set any other midi-controller (4) or sequencer to an additional part. I have attached a pedal-board (9) for switching scenes.

This gives me 3 montages for the price of 1. Perfect deal!
(Although I do sometimes miss an extra montage instead of the midi-keyboard.)

As Yamaha has only one midi-in, I do use a midi-merger. 4 midi in -> 1 midi out

Jan wrote:

The challenge is you would need to duplicate the settings for part 9-16 to every performance. That is fine if you only have a small number of performances but when you grow the number of performances and you need to go back and edit part 9-16, then you would need to duplicate the changes to all performances every time you change. I find this not workable. Did you find the same challenge? Is there a way to keep part 9-16 the same for all performances?

I also use Cantabile (similar to Mainstage but for Windows). It has the "background rack", where sounds in this rack are kept the same (and you can edit the rack separately).

Given part 9-16 was designed to be controlled by external (2nd/3rd) keyboard in the first place, I believe this capability is a compelling feature to add (if there is no workaround to achieve the same at the moment).

I am very interested in your thoughts.

 

Not sure why you need to build two performances to support PARTs 9-16. Why would one do this? What's the scenario that would need anything other than just a single Performance that uses PARTs 1-8 plus one or more PARTs from 9-16?

Jason wrote:

Not sure why you need to build two performances to support PARTs 9-16. Why would one do this? What's the scenario that would need anything other than just a single Performance that uses PARTs 1-8 plus one or more PARTs from 9-16?

Jason, one example is I have many performances where PARTs 1-8 are different while PARTs 9-16 stay the same (mainly E.piano, Pad and Strings to layer with my CP4, which is an excellent stage piano but lacks layering capabilities compared to the newer ones like RD-2000. To be frank, I am investigating this option hard to keep me from switching to the compelling RD-2000 as the bottom keyboard as far as layering is concerned).

What you're describing has little to do with using PARTs 9-16 and more to do with the lack of Performance building-blocks like previous generations' "Voices". You would have the same "problem" even if you had 20 different Performances where PART 1 was a custom piano that you tweaked to sound exactly like you wanted it - and then had 20 different variations where PART 2 was different (strings or synths or basses or guitars or ...). Such a Performance, for example, would only use PARTs 1-2 (and not 9-16) and still have the same "problem". If you made a change/tweak to the piano part - then you would have to copy the change to all other 19 Performances if you wanted that change to propagate. I'm not sure how this relates to using PARTs 9-16 or is an inherent problem with the implementation of PARTs 9-16. You can setup any PART, including 1-8, to be controlled by an external MIDI controller.

It would be "nice" if each PART could have a pointer to a library or user PART (in another Performance) so you could reuse material and changes from the source Performance would propagate through all Performances. If a Performance has a PART that is pointing to another Performance in the user bank -- and you make an edit to that PART (that is pointing to something else) - then the system "could" ask if you want to force the system to change the source Performance (to keep all versions in sync with the new change) or to de-link from the source Performance so the edits you make are a new variant (no longer pointing to another Performance's PART). If pointing to a library - those can't change - so it would assume to create a variant and no longer point to the library Performance's PART.

Jason wrote:

What you're describing has little to do with using PARTs 9-16 and more to do with the lack of Performance building-blocks like previous generations' "Voices". You would have the same "problem" even if you had 20 different Performances where PART 1 was a custom piano that you tweaked to sound exactly like you wanted it - and then had 20 different variations where PART 2 was different (strings or synths or basses or guitars or ...). Such a Performance, for example, would only use PARTs 1-2 (and not 9-16) and still have the same "problem". If you made a change/tweak to the piano part - then you would have to copy the change to all other 19 Performances if you wanted that change to propagate. I'm not sure how this relates to using PARTs 9-16 or is an inherent problem with the implementation of PARTs 9-16. You can setup any PART, including 1-8, to be controlled by an external MIDI controller.

It would be "nice" if each PART could have a pointer to a library or user PART (in another Performance) so you could reuse material and changes from the source Performance would propagate through all Performances. If a Performance has a PART that is pointing to another Performance in the user bank -- and you make an edit to that PART (that is pointing to something else) - then the system "could" ask if you want to force the system to change the source Performance (to keep all versions in sync with the new change) or to de-link from the source Performance so the edits you make are a new variant (no longer pointing to another Performance's PART). If pointing to a library - those can't change - so it would assume to create a variant and no longer point to the library Performance's PART.

Jason, you are right. My wish for the "feature" to be available to PARTs 9-16 was specific to one use case in which PARTs 1-8 represent my "top keyboard" and PARTs 9-16 the "bottom keyboard" (controlled by an external controller - CP4 in my case but other keyboards in Jan's and Christine's case - note how Jan and Christine also use PARTs 9-16 for this purpose). The reason for my original suggestion was I don't change the sounds for the "bottom keyboard" often i.e. they are my favourite A.piano, E.piano, Pad and Strings for 95% of the time and I guess many keyboard players use the same approach. But yes, as you have rightly pointed out, it would be "nice" if the feature is available also to PARTs 1-8. I can see many applications. For example, I could have a number of performances with PARTs 1-8 consist of the same strings sections but with different solo instruments for different songs or styles in a setlist.

Did I have the right impression that you have accepted my wish as a valid feature to suggest to Yamaha hopefully for incorporating into the next software release? I can see it could be a powerful feature for many users. At least for me, I will stop thinking about getting the RD-2000 because I will have virtually the same capabilities but with much better sounds on the Montage and with much more flexibility. I don't think this feature would reduce Yamaha sales of stage pianos in the future when newer and more capable models than the CP4 are introduced.

You may want to experiment with single-PART MSB/LSB+PC changes targeted at specific MIDI Channel numbers. These replace PARTs with the first PART (PART 1) within the target (MSB/LSB+PC) Performance and places this PART into the PART # on inside your current Performance that matches the MIDI channel number. (MIDI Channel 1 = PART 1 ... MIDI Channel 16 = PART 16).

You can either have Performances with just PARTs 9-16 set as you want them and PART 1 as a place-holder then replace PARTs 1-8 by loading through Single-Part MSB/LSB+PC or you can have a single Performance with PART 1-8 programmed with your Montage local PARTs and use Single-Part MSB/LSB+PC to "fill in" PARTs 9-16.

The issue with this approach is covering motion control and superknob for those PARTs which are "flopped in" - since these links would be broken as far as I know after the LSB/MSB+PC loads. You could always load an X7B after the series of MSB/LSB+PC -- but all of this is fairly clumsy since you need a different X7B for every set.

All of this likely involves carrying a computer with USB or maybe a tablet with USB or Bluetooth MIDI support (and adapter on Montage for Bluetooth MIDI). None of this may be acceptable - or above the level of complexity you want to deal with.

Montage Connect is another way - but this doesn't necessarily fix the issue of having to change multiple save files if you want a change in the static part to propagate through. The idea of using MSB+LSB/PC does address this.

Montage Connect would work if you could uncheck PARTs (say uncheck PART1-8) and force Montage Connect to only "mess with" certain PARTs and "opt out" of other PARTs. This is not an option.

I did not know about this limitation, although it certainly explains some frustrating moments I've had with my Montage.

The workarounds and explanations seem all whack-a-doodle to me.

Yamaha should just allow the keyboard to speak to all 16 parts, if desired. Done.

Sometimes, I swear these keyboards (including those made by Korg, Roland, and others) are designed by people who don't actually play the damn things.