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YC73 & YC88 - I am gutted!

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Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

On Dec 23rd I bought a Yamaha MODX7.

Before purchase, I had a good long hard look at the YC61. It was my preference, except that it had only 61 keys.

I even went to the trouble of enquiring via the Music Store Yamaha rep whether a 76/73 key YC was planned. I got a resounding NO, because the YC61 was design intended more towards Organ players... its a niche product.

Top of my "criteria" when purchasing my first keyboard was "Must Do Good Organ".... its for a Pink Floyd project.

The MODX7 ticks a lot of my boxes, but I could see the YC61 was a better fit.... if it had a longer keyboard

How annoying is that?

 
Posted : 15/01/2021 10:12 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

How annoying is that?

Very ... but here are some thoughts...
If you’re the Antony doing the Pink Floyd covers, using the Arpeggiators with the live band, and needing to synchronize these Arps (and Effects) to your band’s tempo... you probably got the right product. (MODX).

The Drawbars (found on the YC) are for organist (those who grew up as piano players mostly make believe they ‘know’ about drawbars) when you see an organist (I’m being subjective here) by “organist” I mean a player who cut their musical teeth on a B3/C3 or A100, not on a spinet, upright, or grand piano... it’s pretty obvious!

... “working the drawbars” is an art. If that is what you came up from, the YC is for you, it’s familiar and you’re right at home using that interface... hands-on, real-time.
... the CP is the piano-centric Stage Keyboard. Set and forget (“I need both hands on the keyboard...”
... while the MODX and MONTAGE are true synthesizers ... emulation, variation, are major points
The focus is different... in each product line.

One can usually tell the ‘piano players’ when they are playing an organ, by their approach to drawbars... many piano-centric players do not understand the “waterfall” keys (as found on the YC61)... it’s okay if organ is not your “first language”, the selection now includes a 73 and 88 note keybed to accommodate the non-organ sounds required to cover a gig. But Organs, typically, have but 61 keys per manual (but can have several manuals)

If you understand drawbars, or if you’re a piano player that has learned/studied and appreciates the ‘different approach’, the synthesizer offers you an opportunity to emulate either the YC (organ centric) or CP (piano centric) approaches — of course, with some concessions.

The synthesizers, technically speaking, don’t have drawbars, but can emulate any specific drawbar setting. Synthesizers emulate a wider range of musical instruments with much more in the way of in depth editing. You can definitely emulate any Pink Floyd or other group’s, organ sounds - that’s what a synthesizer does. (If your a guitar player mainly... then the organ-centric or piano-centric Stage Keyboards may not be the right fit... the MODX, as a synth will offer you the most flexibility when it comes to the variety of sounds and particularly when attempting to get as close to particular recording by the band in question).

But that aside, the difference between the Music Synthesizer (MODX/MONTAGE) and the Stage Keyboard (CP/YC) is one of focus.
The MODX has 8 (count them 8) simultaneous Arpeggiators available...the Stage Keyboards have none.

The YC61/73/88 offer the organ-centric player a familiar (required) drawbar interface to ‘work’ the drawbars and dual manual capability via MIDI + a variety of supporting keyboard sounds to do the gig. Now you have options to expand the role with more real estate for splits, layers, etc., etc.
The CP73/88 offer the pianist a familiar (conveniently portable) interface + a variety of sounds to do the gig
The MODX/MONTAGE offer the player the widest variety of sounds and the most flexibility in programming and emulation.

If the number of sounds on board is a factor... the synthesizers naturally have that feature — there are 2227 factory Performances in your MODX. and room for 5120 of your own in your on board Libraries, plus another 640 in RAM.

The YC73/YC88 were announced yesterday... whomever told you NO, there would never be... didn’t know what was coming out until yesterday. And even if they did know, legally, they could not tell you.

Gear Acquisition Syndrome is a serious disease.
Forums are full of musicians who second guess their purchasing decision.

Extra Credit: How to Decide which to Buy
In general, a good music retailer will never let a customer purchase based on “... which one has the best xxxx sound?”
The reason is, the answer is going to probably be subjective, it’s an opinion in most cases, and like noses, everyone has one... the good retailer will answer that question with a question that can actually help determine which one will sound best to YOU... they need to know HOW the item is going to be used.

Generally, the most expensive one sounds the best, d’uh, but the customer knows this (or they are playing like they don’t or they just think that’s going to be the one they want). This is not always the case.

The greedy sales person will immediately take them and show them the most expensive and attempt to sell it to them. “the best” = “most expensive”.
The experienced sales person will find out your application, before it goes any further. They know that manufacturers make a variety of products that overlap in price points - based on HOW the instrument will be used.
“Oh, I’m a gigging musician and I need to move it around weekly to various gigs”... well, what if the one with “best sound” weighs 760 pounds, is designed to be assembled once and requires a panel truck with a crew to move?

Example: Customer standing in a hardware store in front of a wall full of drills... asks the sales person which one comes with the most drill bits, or which one has the most powerful motor, or which one is the quietest... all questions that are not going to lead to the correct item for this customer - necessarily.

The sharp sales person will ask ‘hey, what are you drilling... wood, steel, masonry?’... the point is, the customer’s APPLICATION should be the defining thing. And although most customers don’t realize it, this is what you play for when you engage a sales person, their experience/expertise. They have sold these items to hundreds, maybe thousands of other customers. They all have made the mistake of not asking the application before making the sale... which leads to a return, lots of paperwork, and frustration (on both sides). They will want to avoid this (and so will you, when you’re the customer).

There is no shortcut... all the products do organ sounds... the organ sounds should be a focus of the YC, to be sure, after all it has the drawbars. The sharp sales person will qualify where you are with “drawbars”... if you react with a story about playing a B3 in church as a teenager and how cool that was, because that’s where you learned to play... you may think it’s just conversation, but the sales person now knows something about you and your experience with organs.

They are (if they are good) looking for a connection to be made between you and the product they are eventually going to show you. If your response is “I’m in a tribute band, and we need to emulate the sound on different songs by that band”. — not quite the same passion for drawbars of an organ, necessarily. Perhaps a keyboard without drawbars but that has a vast variety of sounds, is appropriate.

When I shop, I look for a sales person who is curious about what I’m thinking. There are enough sales people who have their own agenda and will sell you their favorite keyboard... when I’m the customer, I like when they try to find out how I’m going to use it...whether I’m buying an instrument, or a camera... a car or a boat.

 
Posted : 15/01/2021 11:03 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

Hey BM,

yes its me from the MODX forum.

I am already over my twizz. Thanks for the pep talk all the same.

Truth is, I am actually delighted with the MODX7. It seemed quite overwhelming at first, but I am enjoying climbing the mountain bit by bit.

A little background story. Firstly I am a guitarist, always fancied learjning keys, never got round to it.

The Pink Floyd band took a lot of my time and effort to build and get floating.

The problem was always (still is) finding a keyboardist worth his/her salt. Add to that, we are in remote rural Australia, and musicians are pretty scarce, or you have to pursuade a city boy/gal to travel.

We went through a few keyboardists. They either a) couldn't play that well, b) undisciplined "jammers" who wouldn't learn the part c) refused to invest in quality gear (40 yr old cash converter Casios with broken keys don't cut it). Usually some combination of all 3.

So I decided I would buy a good keyboard for the band and allow any KB recruits to play it, rather than suffer the usual hard conversations about quality gear. It would also set a non-verbal benchmark.

I started off looking at the Roland VR09, then the VR730. A city slicker Sales guy "upgraded" me into getting the YC61 instead, which was a lot more money, but he got my interest in sound quality. At another shop, a different Sales guy talked me into getting the MODX.... and demo'd it. It was a MODX6, and I remembered seeing him move the sliders around when showing me the Organ. Again impressed.

Anyways, I hsd a lot of thinking to do. Bear in mind this was for use by another person in the band so I wanted a ready to go "Stage Keybiard". The YC61 was sold to me as "better than, and cheaper than" the NORD range. Thats what I was going to buy except they were out of stock in every shop due to COVID. So I did some more thinking.

What happened was, I decided I would buy a keyboard, BUT - I would also learn how to play and use it., not just "donate it".

Since there was no in stock YC61, no predicted YC73, I went for the MODX7..... and yeah, I'm happy (saved myself $1000 also). It does sound awesome.

The only problem now is, the rest of the band are expecting me to create all the live sets (ready to go). I just created a whole new heap of work for myself. So be it. If you want something doing right, do it yourself.

Maybe a YC73 (or YC61) will be another purchase down the road, and have it sitting above the MODX7.

 
Posted : 15/01/2021 12:29 pm
david
Posts: 0
Reputable Member
 

I have the YC61. You're not missing anything except it looks cool. Sounds as it should with fun interface but if you're NOT a pure organist don't bother with it and never regret not getting one.

The 73 & 88 make zero sense. There's literally NO screen (Yamaha invested $20 on this for a 2K and up unit. Are we living in the dark ages again?) and any & all keyboards on the market work better for the purpose of a keyboard. I'm not sure the 73 has the organ action or waterfall and the 88 doesn't so what's the point in this ultra mediocre 3K paperweight?

Even the OS expansion only added 4 voices to a very, extremely limited sound set. FM is only accessible in the organ and a few voices with no programmability and probably none forthcoming because it's a stage board. FM is an automatic $500 price hike which also makes no sense.

As far as Yamaha never announcing anything, that's their MO and how their management works. Yeah it's stupid plus they completely ignored the ideascale and did what they wanted to do like always. I'm giving up on Yamaha because they have long ago given up on us.

 
Posted : 15/01/2021 2:46 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Ideascale is pseudo-realtime market research. It's not a democracy. Votes are to help inform how high the demand is for features - but does not dictate roadmap. I'm sure if a killer rotary speaker that bested the previous implementation was developed on time for the firmware release (which, as I've mentioned before - has a predictable and routine release schedule) then we'd see it.

Your pessimism has been demonstrably off-target. Still, I hear you and some of the other critique has real validity. However, the delivery tends to cancel out the "good".

Hope your situation is able to improve somehow. I know you have a passion for your gear.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 15/01/2021 4:05 pm
david
Posts: 0
Reputable Member
 

I predict this line will be a bust unless the price drops by $500 on each. It's the same brain and not that impressive and not in demand verses other boards with real screens, content and function.

I think the pathetic new update has convinced me to sell my YC61 which is what I was waiting for.

Honestly I thought it would be a massive update.

More of the same repackaging if age old content into a new shiny box with a micro screen and asking 2K to 3K for it.

Even the die hard Yamaha fan boys are catching on, wising up and going to other brands.

 
Posted : 16/01/2021 12:42 am
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