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How can I improve the guitar sound of this track?

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 A
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Hello everyone,
I've sequenced this song and I was(am) told that the guitar sounds bad:

My song with mediocre guitar sound

How can I improve the guitar sound? I studied about it and listened to my own arrangement and here are the points I found:

1- I have a basic knowledge of strumming (but I don't have a guitar). How can I make the strum and melody sound better? I tried to mix the arpeggio with the nylon FX noises but no success yet. Also I tried to introduce slides and muted notes. Slide doesn't sound good but muted made it more natural.

Also I encounter two issues with the guitar sound of XF that I appreciate if you help me on how to address them:

2- The nylon guitar sample, doesn't sound as punchy it should in the lows. There is not enough bass although the acoustic nylon guitar has a punchy sound in the lows. I tried to EQ it and use the VCM 5 band equalizer but I'm not satisfied with the results. What effects with what settings should I use in order to get a good punchy lows in the mix?

3- The mids have a unique character in high velocity samples that is unpleasant. It's difficult to describe it but I guess "it's too perfect to be true" might be the correct description? I mean if you pick a string that hard it's impossible not have extra noise... the resonating string sounds extremely flawless which is impossible. How can I add an extra resonating noise or a false resonating to a string which is just picked? where I can find the sample in the waverom?

I know that MOTIF XF is a very capable instrument and this is my lack of knowledge that causes this and that's why I'm asking for some help and I really appreciate if you can help me with this. Many thanks!

PS: I'm only MOTIF XF and its internal waverom and I looking for an internal solution which doesn't involve using VSTs, a guitar player or external sample...

 
Posted : 02/03/2017 3:54 pm
 A
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Topic starter
 

Can someone help me on how to set up the VCM 5 band equalizer to match the following and with a bit description on how and why?

1.The peak level of the third resonance (around 400 Hz);
2. The amount by which this resonance stands above the resonance curve level;
3. The sharpness (Q value) of this resonance;
4. The average level of one-third-octave bands in the range 80–125 Hz;
5. The average level of one-third-octave bands in the range 250–400 Hz;
6. The average level of one-third-octave bands in the range 315–5,005 Hz;
7. The average level of one-third-octave bands in the range 80–1,000 Hz;
8. The peak level of the second resonance (around 200 Hz).

I don't understand #2, I guess for #3 I have to adjust the Q value. It is also a bit difficult to imagine how the curve would look like in the VCM equalizer.

I really appreciate it if you can help me with this!

***Just a bit of explanation, the source which I selected this from talks about 3 frequencies, 100, 200 and 400 Hz. So #1 refers to the 400Hz. I should also add that I absolutely don'e understand what it means by " The average level of one-third-octave bands"!

 
Posted : 10/03/2017 6:45 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

First, forgive me if I get too technical (stop me when I do) I spent many of my younger years as a Recording Engineer so this is subject close to my heart (So I warn you at the very outset). There is no right and wrong when it comes to Equalization. There are only better and worse practices.

You cannot EQ something without being there - you have to be LISTENING TO IT - so any suggestions about what to do, should be taken with the biggest grain of SALT available. Yes, there are some general tips - for example, if you EQ'ing a Bass drum - look here for the low end and look here for the mallet strike. But if you know what you want from a sound, you will not know what to do. And as a musician - you have the knowledge, it is just that you probably have not applied it in a meaningful way to EQing your music. Relate Frequency to Music.

I used to teach Audio Engineering for many years in NYC, and one of the things that I observed about students over those years was: I was able to teach musicians about EQ a lot faster than I could teach the average (non-musical) student attendee. And this was because I could relate what they were hearing to the instrument that they played. When you think about frequencies in terms of notes - you have a way to think about solving issues.

For example, an Audio term commonly heard around EQ's is the "1/3 of an octave" phrase. To the average person (I referred to them as civilians) the "1/3 of an octave" is a meaningless phrase. To you as a musician, you know exactly what that is - or you should.

An Octave is easy enough... If you play Middle "C" and then you play the "C" above that you know you have gone up one octave. If you had to divide that one octave into three equal segments you would do so: C3 to E3 to G#3 to C4 equal thirds!

Major 3rd intervals divide an octave into thirds. Of course it does. So when you see a Graphic EQ with a slider every 1/3 of an octave you know that each slider is a Major 3rd apart. The reason a CHORD sounds better, clearer and more defined as you go up in pitch can easily be explained by the phenomena illustrated here.

when you play a Cmajor triad starting low on the piano: C1 - E1 and G1 They are close in frequency
61.41 > 82.41 > 98.00Hz

When you play a Cmajor triad stating with middle C: C3 - E3 - G3
261.63 > 329.63 > 392.00Hz

When you play a Cmajor triad starting with C5: C5 - E5 - G5
1046.50 > 1318.51 > 1567.98

Point being the higher you go the more frequencies there are between the same intervals. This explains why a C triad played low on the keyboard sound dark and muddled, but gets clearer and more defined as you go up the keyboard. There is simply more room for the frequencies -- they have room to spread out - there is space in between - this translates into clarity. Playing a cluster of notes low on the keyboard is less clear than the same cluster of notes higher on the keyboard.

Looking at the piano keyboard - you should also be able to see it from the frequency standpoint of its layout;
To the civilian Frequency are just numbers. To the musicians you see them with different spacing

The "A" above middle "C" is (by convention) A-440 (let's not start the 432Hz argument just yet) So the "A's" on the piano keyboard map out in frequencies like this: (observe how each octave gets bigger...)
A-1 = 27.5Hz
A0 = 55
A1 = 110
A2 = 220
A3 = 440
A4 = 880
A5 = 1760
A6 = 3520
C7 = 4186.01Hz

The octave between A-1 and A0 is only 27.5Hz... but the octave between A5 and A6 is 1,760 cycles per second.

When you are seeking to make EQ at 100, 200 and 400Hz you are set to EQ at three different OCTAVE points - you have to begin to see that 200 is an octave higher that 100, and 400 is an octave higher than the 200. Don't be a civilian, where this has no meaning, you are a musician, you can know exactly what and where you are EQ'ing.

100Hz is between a G and G# (between G1 and G#1)
200Hz is between a G and G3 (between G2 and G#2)
400Hz is between a G and G# (between G3 and G#3)

Other technical terms you need to know: When they talk about "resonance". If all frequencies respond evenly - are at the same volume, there is no resonance. Resonance can be understood by any musician who has played in a band - you walk into the room you are asked to play in, and while warming up you notice that when you hit a G# it seems to hang in the air longer than other notes... the Room is resonating at G#3 - every space has a frequency that because of the shape of the room, a certain frequency is louder than all others.

Music halls are build specifically to avoid this - rather annoying resonance. As you start to learn about frequencies and how they behave, you start to realize that there are crazy resonances - like in the piano - the location of the hammers is precisely set to defeat the rather annoying resonance of the 7th harmonic which tends to be notoriously out of tune (in nature).

So a peak, a bump, a mountain in a graphic of frequency response would represent a RESONANT PEAK... the peak's center is used to identify the resonance frequency. You make this one frequency louder than the others on either side (above and below) you have created a resonant peak. How sharp or steep that bump, mountain, is greatly affects what you hear. If too steep, the frequency will seem to "howl".

Resonance is peak at a specific frequency...
"Q" is how wide the start of the peak is to the end of the peak... How many frequencies above and below the center peak. The higher the Q the narrower the peak. The lower the Q the wider the bump, mountain (peak).

Bottomline though: EQ is done completely by ear. Not by matching values on anyone's description. Your eyes cannot really help you EQ alone, they require your ears. When something sounds 'right' (it is), but it is then that your eyes can look at it and go, "wow, so that's what it looks like when it sounds right".... You cannot make it look right and then go "wow that sounds right"... I'm not saying that this couldn't happen, just not in my experience! 🙂

Trust your ears only. Your eyes think they know sound, they don't! They can help, but they cannot do it alone!
Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 15/03/2017 3:23 pm
 A
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Wow! Thank you SO much Phil. I was away for a while and I totally forget this one. Many thanks! I know that the sound of an instrument is of a personal preference but I took the itemized list from the book:

"The Science of String Instruments"

Since I have little knowledge and experience compared to you and many here I should find some information in the books 😐 That's how a good guitar sound was described in it.

Thanks a ton again!

 
Posted : 10/04/2017 10:58 pm
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